How Men Can Beat The 7-year Itch with Cass Morrow

Can the "seven-year itch" really break a marriage? What if you could learn the secrets to overcoming it and enhancing your relationship? Join us in this episode as we unravel the complex challenges men face in modern marriages, from feelings of disconnection to the infamous milestones that test every couple. Special guest Cass Morrow takes us through his riveting journey from severe narcissism to rebuilding a loving relationship, providing actionable steps from his and his wife's renowned marriage reset program that has transformed thousands of lives.

Personal responsibility becomes the cornerstone of our discussion as we recount real-life experiences of hitting rock bottom and the painstaking process of personal growth. Both Alain and Cass share candid stories of legal troubles and painful realizations that became turning points, emphasizing the critical role of core values in building strong partnerships. We explore the nuanced "nice guy syndrome" and its less obvious narcissistic traits, offering insights into how self-awareness can lead to healthier interactions and stronger relationships.

From decoding love languages to addressing codependency, this episode is a treasure trove of practical advice and transformative ideas. Cass and Alan guide you through integrating gratitude, leadership, and emotional resilience into your daily life, drawing from proven strategies in their program, "The New Marriage." We round off the conversation with wisdom from influential authors on masculinity and relationships, providing a comprehensive resource for anyone striving to be a better husband and father in today's world. Don't miss this eye-opening episode that promises to elevate your understanding of what it means to be a revolutionary man in modern relationships.

Key moments in this episode:
04:03 Rock Bottom and Turning Points 
06:31 Core Values in Relationships
09:01 The Role of Men in Relationships
15:30 Nice Guy Syndrome and Narcissism
20:37 Codependency Dynamics
23:10 Exploring the Five Love Languages
25:06 Creating a Lover's List
25:35 The Importance of Quality Time
28:43 Overcoming Setbacks in Marriage
31:52 Introducing the New Marriage Concept
34:46 Choosing the Right Program for You
39:50 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

How to reach Cass:
Website: www.morrowmarriage.com
Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/morrowmarriage
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/momrrowmarriage
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@morrowmarriage
Book: Disrupting Divorce – The “New” Marriage Man

Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating Marriage Challenges
• 4:11 Personal Responsibility in Relationships
• 16:02 Breaking Down Nice Guy Syndrome
• 20:56 Cracking the Codependency Love Language
• 29:10 Transforming Relationships Through Personal Growth
• 36:52 Masculine Relationship Resources and Advice

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You know, if you've been in a relationship that's past this honeymoon stage, then you're either approaching, or going to be approaching, a season of disconnection, maybe even a lack of sex and possibly even separation. Now some people call this the seven-year itch. I found the timing is basic. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how quickly the marriage becomes disconnected. It's really about the communication that remains. And again, can you get past that? How are you doing today, dear you know, man, if I was there and I was able to have somebody that could help me wake up, because those are the times that I needed the most help.

Speaker 1: 0:33

And so today we're going to talk about how we can look at saving our marriages, really grinding into what it means to be a man in relationship, what we can do to raise the level that we show up as husbands and fathers. And before we get into all that, we know that being a man today has never been more challenging, and for many of us, there's a pain associated with that, and this pain is real. It's a pain of loneliness, it's a pain of unworthiness, and it's masked by our anger and resentment. And it's all because we're uncertain and afraid to take that next step. So if you're tired and fed up with where you're at. I'm going to ask you to start your hero's quest, where you can become more, accomplish more and live more than ever before. Just go to the members of theawakenmannet and start your quest today, and with that, let's get on with today's episode.

Speaker 2: 1:25

The average man today is sleepwalking through life, many never reaching their true potential, let alone ever crossing the finish line to living a purposeful life. Yet the hunger still exists, albeit buried amidst his cluttered mind, misguided beliefs and values that no longer serve him. It's time to align yourself for greatness. It's time to become a revolutionary man.

Speaker 1: 1:52

Stay strong, my brother. Welcome everyone to the Revolutionary man Podcast. I'm the founder of the Awakened man Movement and your host, alan DeMonso. Now, when you're thinking about your marriage, what would you say has changed the most? Or who would you think has changed the most? And have anybody really just stayed the same? You know what? The simple truth is that you've both changed equally. What we tend to get caught up is the romantic ideals of the early days. We forget that being in marriage requires both parties to grow and to change, and while that is true, it's also true that we need to grow. We may be growing at different paces. So how do you go from fighting for your marriage when, apparently, you have the most work to do? Well, at least that's what you're going to be telling yourself. So, but wait, maybe you're that guy who thinks that she's the one who's got the most work to do. You know, amanda, regardless of which dude that you may show up, as today's episode is going to be an eye-opener for you. I just want me to introduce my guest at this moment.

Speaker 1: 2:56

Cass Morrow considered himself as a self-aware, severe narcissist who only knew seven-day anger binges and how to emotionally abuse, physically and sexually assault his wife. Having separated from his wife for seven times, they both came to the conclusion that things had to change. Boy change did they do that? Having served over 3,200 men in less than two years in a business, and his wife Catherine serving more than a thousand women? Their marriage reset program is saving marriages and families like no others that I've heard of. Cass. Welcome to the show, brother. How are things today, my friend?

Speaker 3: 3:30

Yeah, best day of my life. Thanks for having me on buddy.

Speaker 1: 3:32

Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a busy day here for sure. Lots of podcasts on, and I'm just grateful for this one. I've been looking forward to this one all day, and so, as you know, when we get started here at the Revolutionary man podcast, we always want to talk about people's hero's quest, and while I shared a little bit about your story, I'm sure there was a point that was truly rock bottom for you. So tell us about that point and how it shaped you and the man you are today and the work that you're doing.

Speaker 3: 4:01

Yeah, I think that's such a beautiful thing, because anybody who wants to climb out of their hole, become a hero, even in their own life, guys, is you're going to have your version of rock bottom. For me it was pretty straightforward, man, I was charged with assault, I was on a year of probation, was forced into anger management and if I screwed up even just a little, I was going to jail. And at the same time, I was about to lose the one person who I thought I loved the most, yet destroyed the most in my entire life. And you know, what's funny is, I'll take one more thing under the rock bottom, and I think it's just really, really important, because when you want to do anything in life, make a change, you need to take some real responsibility.

Speaker 3: 4:44

And the click for me was I knew when the police were coming. I knew I was, I'm going to bed, I'm going to bed, it's okay. Didn't matter how much alcohol was in my system was like I was immediately sober. Didn't matter how much I trashed the place. It was like I wanted to clean things up and was like no time, get to bed, go to sleep before the cops get here. Alan, I knew, you knew, you know, and I always tell people you don't know what you don't know. I thought yelling was the only way to go, but no man, when I clicked I realized I knew I was going to go hide and please don't take me away. You know what I mean, and so that was my moment, right there, you know.

Speaker 1: 5:20

Yeah, it was. You know that that part of that story there just resonated with me. It's very similar to what happened with my first marriage. I had married my high school sweetheart and I had moved out, and less than a week having moved out, I thought I'd drive by on the weekend, go by the house and when you know, there was her boyfriend's car. And I'll never forget that day because we had a two-story home and it had 23 stairs. The only reason why I know there's 23 stairs that our son, or our oldest son, used to slide down the mountain but he'd count them, and so, you know, we got good at knowing how many stairs, but I think I did those 23 stairs in about four steps.

Speaker 1: 6:00

And it was you the worst day of my life, but also the best day of my life, because it woke me up to just how unconscious I was about life and where we're at. And so thank you so much for being vulnerable and sharing that piece. And life's not always going to be easy for us, and it's about an opportunity for us to be willing to see it, to actually do some good in life. And so you guys have been doing that. You know your wife and yourself have been doing some amazing things, but tell me a little bit more. You guys do spend a bit of time on working on things like core values. I'm sure that was some of the stuff that you worked through. Tell me a little bit about that work that you guys have been doing.

Speaker 3: 6:39

Yeah, we firmly believe that you have to have your own core values and I'm really pleasantly surprised that more and more I'll call them gurus are telling guys wake up earlier in the morning, start your morning routine, get a workout on cold shower, spend some time with core values, affirmations and gratitude. I'm really thrilled about it. I have a different approach. I don't think you necessarily have to do it that exact way, but core values. You can't function in life without them and if you really want a partnership, it's not about forcing your core values on someone, it's about them, their core values. Like my wife and Catherine, my core values they blend, they overlap. We fill in each other's gaps with our values. Believe it or not, people think we have to both value kids the same way, and well, actually we totally don't. We absolutely don't. But we blend our core values and we carry each other with our strengths and lift the weaknesses, based off core values.

Speaker 1: 7:33

Yeah, absolutely. It makes so much sense, right, and that's a great point, because how many times do we think that everything has to be exactly the same? And that's not really why we got into a relationship. We got into a relationship because there were things that were different and that's what we were attracted to, and so I like that you've brought that distinction up that people understand. It's like we've had the conversation on core values and and we haven't really touched on that piece about making sure that it's not about them being the same, but how do they complement each other, and so I think that's the point.

Speaker 3: 8:03

I think that also the the big problem with core values is people. They throw them around and they bastardize them like they do with everything else. The atkins diet back in the day. You know, nowadays it's, it's can't control your wife which, by the way, is not manipulation. We all know that means get her to reflect. Everything gets twisted like come on, you can't make decisions unless you know who you are and what you believe in. And if you want respect in your home, you know it's not earned. I don't know who's telling you this crap, but it's not earned. You have to show up. I said earned, I mean it's not demanded, it's earned. You're going to have to show up with your core values and follow through on the decisions you make based on that, and then you earn her respect. Yeah, right and so yeah, I just can't stress enough don't bastardize it, embody them it matters.

Speaker 1: 8:49

Absolutely, absolutely, completely agree. I know you were just seeing if we were paying attention when you said earn there, but a good thing that we were all. We're all listening now. Listen, part of your story is about about you guys really like, my wife and I have gone through our struggles, but yours is so powerful because you guys separated like seven different times and so what was it that finally, that you finally were able to figure out that wasn't happening those previous times? Take us through that piece.

Speaker 3: 9:21

Yeah, you know, I think this is really really valuable for men too. So you know, we talked about what really really valuable for men too. So you know, we talked about what clicked for me in my, my sort of rock bottom. But I had another one that was pivotal. And so Catherine had said to me at one point so I'd done a lot of work, started with court mandated, and then I'd already done a number of years of therapy and we had done, and none of this was working, okay. And so Catherine had said to me one day I, what it was, was I'll. I'll be straight with you, I was, I was horny, I wanted to use it and I was just like making my move.

Speaker 3: 9:48

And she rejected me flat out. And I was like, oh, she was super sweet, she sat me down I know what I'm about to say is not super sweet, but she said, she said it. She sat me down and she said, honey, I'm, I'm not in love, I'm not attracted and I'm, I'm settling, I'm here to honor my commitment and my oath. And I lost my poop for three days and then I clicked and I realized it is the man's job to fix it. If she doesn't want me, then what am I doing differently? You know, if I'm saying it takes two, I'm saying it takes you. Mommy, how can I get you to want me again? Instead of showing up, like every woman needs a man to show up who, for lack of a better expression, will throw her over the shoulder or deal with the rejection when she says no and make her want it, flip it. So she says yes.

Speaker 3: 10:45

You know, and at that moment, that's when I really embraced the journey. That's when I I mean, you couldn't give me enough books and I didn't read them once. I'd beat them up with highlighters, markers, I would start comparing notes to training women for two decades in a group setting in my gym that I had, and I would start to just try this, try that, and I started to make a system on a spreadsheet. And it was because I was not happy with me and I was tired of not feeling good enough for me. Yeah, you know what I mean. If she was going to reject me, no man, I realized it wasn't about her. I needed to be in a position where I was the one deciding.

Speaker 1: 11:21

Yes, yeah, absolutely. And that's what it really means to be, to lead in the relationship, isn't it? Because a lot of times we forget, we don't think about that, about what that means to lead. And when she sat you down and said that, you know, even for me, I would, just, I could feel that dagger going through my heart. What a, what a sweet, simple thing to say, and then for you to then to look at that and go that's right, I have to own this shit, this is my stuff, and so it can't be about what she's not doing, it's about what am I doing. And if I show up differently, if I do that work, I totally can relate to that, because that's exactly the scenario for me when I married my high school sweetheart and we split up. It was a journey for me. It wasn't about anymore for her, because I'm the it's, it's how I was showing up is what caused everything to fall apart, and so I appreciate it's important for for your listeners to, of course, understand.

Speaker 3: 12:22

Of course, wives have to take responsibility for their side of the equation, but where people get confused, if you want to step out into leadership, it's quite simple. You won't need her apology when she's sitting on your lap saying, baby, I love you, tell me about your day. You won't need her apology when she's putting the kids to bed early. You won't need the apology when she's using your love language and running across the room saying, wow, baby, I'm proud of you, thank you, saying gratitude to the children for what you do. So stop looking for what you don't need. Focus on what you can do and get what you want. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 12:57

Yeah, absolutely, I love that. I love that. That's good, that's pretty cool. You know, in our men's work, you know, or I've seen in some men's work when people talk about men having to be able to be that provider, protector and the presider over the family, and that's what they're using really as their core tenants. But how do these things serve us? And then how do they disempower us in relationships?

Speaker 3: 13:22

I think that they serve us because I mean, if you're not a provider, you're sorry, but you're not much of a man Like, let's be real here. Ok, and you're talking to somebody who has lost a seven figure business during COVID and had to start all over again. You know what I mean. I'm not discrediting anybody's work ethic. Maybe you need to work smarter, not harder, I don't know, but you need to be. This is called being an adult, but you need to be. This is called being an adult. You should want more for yourself.

Speaker 3: 13:49

If you can't buy tires or pay for a year of insurance or go on a holiday to Mexico with your family, you probably need to consider what you're doing and how you're doing it. That's all. And as far as providing goes, it's screwing with you because she wants the kingdom, but she wants the kingdom, but she wants the Prince Charming. So just in case anyone's wondering millionaires have their wives, leave them with suitcases and picture frames and the children no money. I've seen it over and over and over again. So it's not that. What you need to be providing is safety, security, so she can trust you. Maybe it's spiritual, leadership, emotional there's so many other levels of provision that matter and where it's giving you the.

Speaker 3: 14:28

The problem is that you're still stuck on, and she did it to you too. Hey, what do you do for a living, alan? Oh, great, you think you're doing it right, but it's. It's not right. And then protecting I just have a firm belief if you're busy defending yourself, how are you protecting your wife? I'm not saying you can't have a viewpoint, good gosh. No, we're not doing happy wife, happy life here. But you can agree with your wife and disagree either way, validating, showing empathy, caring and you can still protect her heart.

Speaker 1: 15:02

Yes, yeah, I love that part and that makes so much sense, right, and I think that's where we do get confused, right. We think that that when we're trying to protect things, that we're protecting ourselves and maybe from a protection from the family unit, more of a will protecting the family home. But talking about it and coming from the heart, you know, really it really leads me to thinking some of the work that that I know, that I know you're certified with no more, mr Nice Guy work.

Speaker 1: 15:30

And I really appreciate Glover's work as well. So how have you been able to, how did his work inspire you to make change in your life, and how are you using it in your work?

Speaker 3: 15:40

Oh, robert knows like I love his work. I love it, but there's two things that are a little bit off for me, and one is I think that it needs to be applied a little. Well, I guess I should rewind so you have some background. I found it 65 or 70% of the way through my journey. I wish I would have found it when I was 18. It probably would have changed and shaped my whole life.

Speaker 3: 16:02

Okay, so, listeners, if you haven't read it, honestly, if you in marriage, I'd start there. If the first seven to 20 minutes resonate with you your goal, keep reading. But for me I find that it's it's not enough of a plan. If you're thinking about I mean even even if you think about protecting, like we were just talking about how many times you're sliding across the hood to you know, protect your wife and family from kidnappers, man, it's not happening. If people are breaking into your house, it's not happening.

Speaker 3: 16:31

Yet you have this need for approval. You know I'm a great guy, baby, I'm protecting you. I can protect you, man. You you're not. You're missing the point. Move if some intruders are breaking into your house. So I apply that. That whole resource is phenomenal, but I take it and I break it down and I put it more into the different facets of what a man need to be, with more of a step-by-step, you know, and then I think from there, the one thing that's really really different about it is that, if you can embrace that, there's no such thing as a nice guy which, by the way, today is the simp, right, it's just a new version of it right, there's no such thing as toxic masculinity, there's just toxic people. Okay, if you can start, to look at it you can realize.

Speaker 3: 17:10

All this really needs to be is are you a man if you can let go and of your ego, for example, and go? All right? I guess cast is saying some pretty cool stuff alan's agreeing about this whole providing and protecting and defending and everything, and huh you.

Speaker 3: 17:25

You can then break away from this nice guy thing the other thing that I think is really, really dramatic, I might add and I don't want to offend anybody who's listening, but I, three times in 10 weeks, I said to dr glover I'm like robert, do you think that nice guys are narcissists? And he would not confirm or deny, and rightfully so, because he'd have to acknowledge that maybe there was some more narcissism than he and back then it wasn't a thing in 2003 when the book came out.

Speaker 3: 17:54

But I'm not saying that nice guys are narcissists, but what we do is we present narcissistic traits and I'm all too familiar with them because I'm a severe narcissist on a scale. So, yeah, that that's. I do spend a lot of time working with men trying to break down different characteristics of narcissism, because it's easy to gaslight if you're in your nice guy. You know what I mean yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1: 18:17

What a great connection. I had made that connection until you said that about that. That can be that hidden factor, the narcissism in with the nice guy syndrome. Because really, what are we doing with the night in the nice guy syndrome? We're really looking after our own needs right all the time. It's about our needs and that's then that I can see that relationship.

Speaker 3: 18:38

Now that you mentioned that, and well, I'll look like this if I'm giving and giving and giving and loving her, that's what we call a bum right, Then what I call is a nice guy triangle. So you give you love, you're available Anything you want. Baby, you can do no wrong. I'm sorry, let's fix it. And then we start to feel isolated, lonely. I'm the only one doing all this stuff, Okay.

Speaker 1: 18:59

You wouldn't know that part about a narcissist.

Speaker 3: 19:01

but that's what's happening. And but that's what's happening. And then you're going to go into this, what I call losing your power, where you start to blame her, we start to shut down. For me, I was rageful, you might shut down, you know, and so you are giving to get. So you love bomb and now you're gaslighting Right now. Again, I'm not saying you're a narcissist. What I'm saying is it's really important to recognize just traits, just characteristics, so you can get through your communication issues.

Speaker 1: 19:27

Yeah, traits and patterns. Right, You're really talking also about a pattern.

Speaker 3: 19:30

That's right.

Speaker 1: 19:31

When you start to have that self-awareness, you can start to connect the dots and go hey, when I do this and this and this, and then she responds this way. This is what's happening for me, and it takes guys such as yourself and myself, who you know been down the path, a little bit further. Our work isn't about guru, about being gurus I think everyone needs to be their own guru but we just been down the path a little further and I've seen a couple things that maybe we can remind you to hey that might be a landmine there if you want to consider not stepping.

Speaker 1: 20:00

And that's up to them to decide on how they, how they wish to carry themselves. But it's a great point to remind ourselves that just because you're being nice doesn't mean that there aren't some of the narcissistic traits that are happening. The other side of that coin is you need, you need the equal, you need to have a partner to with that, and so that's where codependency comes in as well. Right, and so when you have, when you're in relationship, then you have one. One side of is narcissistic. There's still some tendency on the codependency. So can you tell us a little bit about how that was showing up for your wife during that time when, when you guys weren't as aware, self-aware as you are today?

Speaker 3: 20:36

Yeah, so for us it's reflecting back now, because we didn't know anything about narcissism at the time and we certainly knew nothing about codependency. People are only just starting to figure out codependency now, really, because there's like a backlash on narcissism, right, but you can't have a narcissistic relationship without somebody being codependent. Now, prior to this coming out, codependency has been looked at in different ways. Right, if you talk about mothers with husbands gone and they're just all over their children pouring the same thing, you can have nice girls too.

Speaker 3: 21:08

It's just that it wasn't coined by a doctor in 2003, right, and so, yes, catherine was very codependent, but actually it almost flipped for us because when I would say, well it's, I guess it's her turn and like the cell phone was across my face and into the wall. You know where the chairs would flip. It wasn't as long or as many, like. It was months rather than years, right, um, the, the harsh abuse. She called it reactive abuse. It's hard for us as men to admit we're being abused, but, um, and mostly but um, yeah, it was like she was very codependent on me and still has a hard time acknowledging or accepting because it's, it was like it was just over her head, you know but the flip.

Speaker 3: 21:51

The flip of it is I became very codependent. It was like it was almost like I was trying to get my love out of that, and then I would kind of almost revert back to the old ways. And then she had to be codependent, or else why are we still here, why are we still going through this Right? But you see, codependency nobody wants to admit, because then then it's not the narcissist's fault anymore. But listen, you can just be an asshole and you can still have somebody who's codependent.

Speaker 1: 22:23

Absolutely. You know, absolutely, yeah, yeah, cod echo. Dependency shows up in lots of different ways and what a great way to another great framework there to recognize how we can bounce between those right that ourselves not about the other person, but ourselves and how those two almost go hand in hand and meet and kind of need each other. It's really interesting, you think about the love bomb.

Speaker 3: 22:46

I can't love bomb you if I don't have somebody who's willing to accept it and take it and embrace it right. I would challenge you guys all to think about it like this if somebody's capable of love, focus on that, show them what that can do. That's what changed everything for us, what I can feel, joy and love.

Speaker 1: 23:02

This feels good, you know yeah, that's what we need to focus on yeah yeah, man, love that, love that.

Speaker 1: 23:09

Hey, you'll touch a little bit there on gary chapman's book. They're like the five love languages, and, and and and. We use it. We use it in our work here as well, but I've also heard that it's been somewhat debunked and may not have to have as be as strong as as we think. Although I don't know, it seemed to work pretty good in my relationship anyways. You said that what have you found in your marriage? Work, and I know you guys talk about the real five love language no thoughts, tell me about the real five.

Speaker 3: 23:35

I think. Well, first of all, it's it's really I mean, the first time I heard it I think I was 22 in some sort of work communications course, like the guys got I. Last time I checked I think it was like 86 books or something that the love language is applied to whatever right and I mean. So there's value, but like everything else, it gets bastardized. I'll give you the easiest point for listeners right now. Well, I do her love language, but I'm physical touch and she doesn't touch mine.

Speaker 3: 24:02

There's a reason why I say things when I'm talking to you guys. When I say things like when katherine wants me to know she's proud of me, she sits on my lap, she runs across the room and touches my face. You know like she does that for a reason it's because she's working to meet mine. And the reason why it's bastardized is I think people work very hard to understand it. This people, not men, people, okay, but then they focus on their own love language instead of realizing, just like everywhere else in life, if you're a taker, you're not going to get. Just start giving, man, give, give, give, just like respect, just like gratitude. Give the love language to your partner and then you'll get it Now real five.

Speaker 3: 24:41

I created my own thing with it and I think you can use the love languages. But if you're always on point and you're just a, I call you a Lord if you're in my program. If you're a bad-ass Lord and you are like flirting with your wife, you're banter. It's fun. You're getting through hard conversations, flipping it to positive. You know you can use the love languages differently If you're always on point. Use them more for like date ideas. Use them more for like date ideas. Use it more for ways to flirt.

Speaker 3: 25:05

I teach guys to create something called the lover's list, which is all the reasons you love your wife, and there's a whole lesson I give on this. You can use it when you're angry at your wife and you want to say I'm done. Or you can use it when you want to show her how much you love her. But you don't have to use it just as words of affirmation. Use it as inspiration for all five love languages and all of a sudden now she's feeling love from all angles. Man, you can't mess up, and why that's helpful is because dudes mess up. I mean you step by step. You know what I mean yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 25:33

And what I like about that framework that you're putting together there is that it's really about just because just because someone scores a little higher in one of the love of one of the love language, doesn't mean they don't appreciate it the rest of them, and so that's what I really like about that is that you're asking us to show up as whole, complete men. How can we show up differently? Because after a while, I think you know if your wife my wife is her main love language is receiving gifts, well, listen, if every week I'm buying her something that's going to wear off pretty fast. But I also know she appreciates that we go out and do something, and so one of the things we did this past year is we set up date nights. She took the second Friday of the month and I took the fourth Friday of the month, and the goal of this process was that individual would plan the evening, whatever it is that we're going to do. And I got to tell you, cass, you know, we did things that we never would have done.

Speaker 1: 26:28

We made rules and couldn't have anybody else come and spend time with us, because we're pretty social people and it couldn't be a movie night, unless we talked about it ahead of time. It was something we really wanted to both go see. So we went out. We've gone out dancing, we've been Shakespeare in the park, you know. We've been straight spear in the park, you know we've done. You know skating, like all these stuff that we just wouldn't do. And what I appreciated about that was that we really got a chance to see each other in a different light, because we were both somewhat out of our comfort zone. The one planning because it's something different, they wouldn't, we wouldn't necessarily do that and the other one we have, you know, coming along and knowing that, hey, I just gonna have to participate whether, whether I like dancing or not, I just gonna have to go dancing out, just the way it's gonna be yes, you're gonna show up awesome, which is quite right, like if you guys listening, if you think about it, if you're a 10 man, she has to meet you.

Speaker 3: 27:20

And, by the way, girls just want to have fun. They still sing it at karaoke today. So just have fun. Let me give you a level up.

Speaker 1: 27:28

Is that cool, alan? Yeah, absolutely man.

Speaker 3: 27:30

Okay, so when you're doing this, this is quality time. If you guys didn't understand what's going on here, and so what he's done and by the way they're also doing acts of service in a way, which is what I think you should do.

Speaker 3: 27:37

You should stack the languages. They're each choosing what serving their partner sometimes for themselves, maybe, sure quality time, and other times for their partner. Okay, now what you can do is take your lover's list all the things you love about her. Don't just say you're beautiful. Tell her why, use the quality time to spark different conversation, which, by the way, if you guys missed it, that's why Alan and his wife are not watching a movie unless it's planned. They're having actual quality time. Put your phones away, make sure that you're using these love languages and then, when you start to stack them, that quality time could turn into sure, we talked about acts of service, but now you got words of affirmation. You could surprise her to never stop, and you can almost make that into a gift. Gifts, by the way, for you. More than just buying a gift, make something. Send a note how you were thinking. There's so many different ways. So I love this, Alan. Well done, man.

Speaker 1: 28:26

Yeah, it was great, it was a great pivot for us, as we recognize that. And thanks for putting that framework around it again for guys to pick up the nuances within it, and it doesn't need to be too complicated and I think when we do that with this kind of work it just makes things so much better. Now, you know, when my wife and I went through our setback because you know in our journey we had some setbacks for sure. Like I said, I was saying earlier that even though she gave me an opportunity to, to you know, find the man within me that she saw, it doesn't mean it was a, it was a blank check. At any given day she could have said I'm done, you're out, get you know, get lost. So I had to show up, I had to come in.

Speaker 1: 29:05

But we had some setbacks and I'm sure through your journeys you guys have had some setbacks. So what advice would you give men who are in that season? They're trying to do everything they can to save their marriage and they're right. They're facing setback after setback. What would be some advice you'd give them?

Speaker 3: 29:22

there's. The first thing is fundamental guys, you wouldn't be trying to I don't know save your marriage, join a program, read a book, listen to a podcast. You wouldn't be trying to be a better man if you wanted for your life. How do I know that? Because when you hit your version of rock bottom, you were afraid of losing her. You were afraid of failing in your marriage. You're afraid of another man raising your kids. So, my gosh, if you can just hold on to a little bit of gratitude when it's frustrating, number one, number two, you're going to be feeling like she's always bringing up the past and your failures and you're sucking and all that stuff. Listen, nobody wants to think about the past. Nobody wants to feel the pain. The example I like to use is affairs. Okay, nobody wants to imagine somebody's mouth on you or the other way around. So stop acting like you.

Speaker 1: 30:10

She's throwing in the past and start looking at an opportunity to get her into the future.

Speaker 3: 30:12

The last thing I would say is this are you a leader? Do you believe that men should lead? Because if little wife has big feelings and you can't handle them and you're like, oh man, she said it's over, okay, dude, cool Again, does it take two or does it take you, mommy, to give me the instructions? Go be a leader, show your gratitude, show up, take her to the future, provide structure for where you're going and own it. Own it. You're a 10 man. You will be looking down at a six or seven or possibly a three very soon and you will have a choice.

Speaker 1: 30:44

that's it yeah, absolutely, and that and that's so. That's such a great point cast because, regardless of the situation, if you're doing this work, you know to save that. You know we're talking about saving marriages and you know keeping the family together. The reality is that might not be the case in the end. There may be. It may require that there's a separation. However, what doesn't require is for you to stay in being the same knucklehead that you were that put you into that position, and you can choose to grow and change, and whether it worked for this relationship, I suggest it'll probably do wonders.

Speaker 1: 31:20

Anyways or not, the next relationship you're in is going to be that much better because you're more self-aware, you have some training, you have some knowledge, and so I think the guys have to remember this isn't an all or nothing choice here. We're making that all or nothing is really for yourself. Either you're going to continue to repeat the same patterns and behavior or you're going to plant your stake in the ground and say enough's enough and I need to be the man that I know that I can be. And so I think this work that really leads me into your program. You call it the new marriage, and so I'd like to get a sense of why you guys called it that. How would you find that the work that you're doing is more effective than traditional counseling?

Speaker 3: 32:02

yeah, that's such a great question, so we call it the new marriage. This really evolved. But we call it the new marriage because we really really feel strongly. Do not do what you're told by everybody around you. And if you don't believe me, look around. Divorce rates are climbing, except from after covid, because people can't afford it. Don't worry, we'll catch up here and like it sucks to say it, but it's true. And so we call it the new marriage because we're just, we break away from everybody's normal.

Speaker 3: 32:28

Like communication is key. No, it's not that might be the blank key, but what the little grooves, man, like that's the skills you need to communicate. You know, and I'm gonna have this whole training on society solutions for free on my website, and why? Because every man needs to stop doing it. You know it's when you're happy wife, happy, life is a big one. Or talking, having to talk. Why don't you want me? You know, like all these things that we do, like cover, I provide, I protect, I'm a great dad, I'm a great guy, all these things, man, you can't have the new marriage if you're still doing the old ways. They're not working, you know. And now with feminism and let's call it masculinity, okay, not toxic, okay, but that's just society's marriage. That's all that, that is. They're all fighting now bickering and complaining, and now you're trying to figure out what to do.

Speaker 3: 33:17

But I would take it one step further and I I would say it's really the new man. I mean, there's a real big reason why we have 90%. So you've gotten about 250,000 followers. 90% or 85% at any given time are women. Okay, it's almost always me on social media. Catherine is in and out, and if that many women are on there saying spot on, wow, I've been saying this for years, this is what I want. I wish my husband would listen to this. Are you married, cass? You know you name it. Okay, then maybe you should start listening and become the new man.

Speaker 3: 33:53

There's a reason that 90% of our followers are women, yet 75% of the people in our program is men. Why? Because it just takes the man to show up. Women are waiting for him. Your wife, if you're listening, is waiting for the changes, for something different and wants so much more you know what I mean?

Speaker 1: 34:13

yeah, absolutely, and I'm not surprised to hear those, those statistics about you know statistics about viewership and then who's actually showing up, and I'm actually grateful to hear that you're serving this many men, because we do need to show up and there hasn't up until now, there really hasn't been a roadmap or a book for us to figure out how to show up in life. But today there's no shortage of that information. What there's a shortage of is people actually taking action and doing something about it.

Speaker 1: 34:41

And so what you guys are doing is phenomenal man.

Speaker 3: 34:44

Thank you, and let's talk about that, because you have a program, I have a program. There are some good programs out there.

Speaker 3: 34:49

Guys, if you're listening, it doesn't have to be my program or Alan's. It has to be a program that fits for you. Do yourself a favor, listen. Do yourself a favor, listen to who you're speaking to. Who are you talking to? Is it a salesman, or is it somebody who cares about the mission? Is it just your marriage and the dollar, or are they trying to disrupt divorce? Do they have a real masculinity goal? Okay, and from there, did they achieve what you want? Are you going to ask a broke person how to make seven figures? No, don't. Are you going to ask a fat personal trainer how to become ripped? You shouldn't. You know. You know, if they didn't save their marriage, they're on to a different marriage, and that's not where it ends.

Speaker 3: 35:28

Please don't stop there, because, alan, you mentioned your own second marriage like it's. What did you overcome? What is the real mission? What? What is the purpose behind it? Don't just jump in and try a bunch of shit because, man alive, I'll save you hundreds of thousands of dollars if you don't just jump in. Right, what are you trying to learn? I know I needed to learn how to stop yelling, but I needed to learn how communication was why I spent $100,000 before I learned that I need to learn. Communication is beyond me. You know what I mean. So please, please, please, please, if you're listening, there's so many good resources. Discern, be patient. It doesn't have to be immediate. You guys were banging and living together before you got married, so just don't worry about divorce papers. Just seriously learn and go forward.

Speaker 1: 36:17

Yeah, oh yeah, I love that absolutely and this is about you know taking that action. But you're absolutely right, we don't need to. We don't need to go to that type of extreme if you're willing just to pay attention, and there's just so much out there. You know, obviously in your journey you've learned lots of stuff, buddy, and you've taken tons of courses and and all of this, but you must have had a mentor or two, and someone asked what would be the best piece of advice that you were given and how is that serving you today?

Speaker 3: 36:43

yeah, I had to be honest with you. Solid, but I don't think I was given one piece of best advice, because I I add to everything. I'll give you one that I love. There's an author, gs youngblood. It wasn't my method, I just love gs youngblood.

Speaker 3: 36:56

His book is masculine relationships, and he's got got another one, art of embodiment. If you're dealing with anxiety and stuff like that, you should really check it. And he's newer, by the way, you know. But I started to talk to a little bit. I like him a lot, and in his book he says you may not be the problem, but you are the solution. I Absolutely love that. He wasn't one of my mentors, but I absolutely love that and I teach it in my program. Now, when I refilmed it and I said but I'm going to add to it, and if you're not the solution, you're the fucking problem, that's it, end of day. And the reason why is simple Because are you going to sit there and complain? Come on, your life is nowhere near as bad as mine was, so get off your butt. What's your problem? Seriously?

Speaker 3: 37:42

but otherwise though, yeah, I, I hate to sell cocky like that but I always like to add on to everybody's thing and keep blending them and building them like love languages thing. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1: 37:51

yeah, so yeah no, I love that, I love how you, how you put that together, because you've made it yours right and and that's really what the idea is is that we've we've taken something that has inspired us and then we've really molded it to fit for us, and you're absolutely right, by adding, by adding. Can I give you one more? Have you, have you heard of? Let's do that?

Speaker 3: 38:14

travis neville. Have you read his book the ideal man, travis?

Speaker 2: 38:17

neville no I haven't.

Speaker 3: 38:18

That was not neville, he's. He is a friend of mine, um, and he wrote a book. I met him after he wrote the book. It's the ideal man reviving masculinity, and actually this is gonna sound awful. I can't remember if it's the other way around, but anyway he says you know, there's a gap between the trigger, the stimulus right, and the response, and I don't remember if he got that anywhere and I added to that too, and I said so help her put the gun down, dude. Like again, if you're a protector, do you like? If you both got shot right now, are you checking your wounds? Are you seeing if she's bleeding out and saving your life? Man, and so you know.

Speaker 3: 38:52

If you don't, if you don't know travis or gs man, they're both awesome, solid dudes. Go check out their books. They're, they're great. But the point is you're like, don't stop learning. I guess that's what I would tell you. If you're thinking about one thing I can't man David Data's got so much good stuff. I can go on Des and Garrett. There's so many great resources. And then there's the OTs man. Like well, glover's going to be an old timer too. You know, if you're talking about like, uh, gary chapman, like you start going through so much good stuff out there, man, you know anyways, yeah, yeah, I love that absolutely.

Speaker 1: 39:26

I haven't heard of travis novel, but I'm definitely gonna pick that up and and we actually did a complete lesson plan on the masculine relationship last february and the guys really got a got a lot out of that course, especially when they start to realize what it really means to lead in a relationship, and so I love Youngblood's work for sure. You know of everything that we spoke about today, cass, and maybe there's something we didn't get a chance to touch on what would be the one takeaway you'd want our guests to have?

Speaker 3: 39:56

Honestly, just keep an open mind.

Speaker 3: 39:58

It is so hard in the moment, you know you you love your wife man, and it hurts like hell to not feel like a valuable dude to her. It hurts like hell to feel like you might be failing or like a lot of my guys, man. They're so successful in life but not with this, so you just know you're not successful. You know, just keep an open mind, man, Just like your heart's open right now. Keep an open mind because you are responsible for your choices, but better than that, you can make the choices that change everything. Everything health, wealth, relationship.

Speaker 1: 40:35

Just do it, man, it's yours for the taking you know Absolutely Right on brother love that anybody just want to say thank you so much for spending time with us today, and you really are showing us that, no matter where we are in our marriages, there is a chance that we can do something, even if we're the only one who wants to save it. And so if men are interested in getting a hold of you and participating in your work, what would be the best way for them to do that?

Speaker 3: 40:59

just my website, moralmarriagecom. So my last name, marriagecom. It's also my social media, so, whatever you like, there's lots of free stuff on my website too, so right on.

Speaker 1: 41:08

I'll make sure all that's in the show notes for today's episode. I'm going to reach out once again, brother. Thank you so much for being on the show. Really enjoyed it you got it.

Speaker 3: 41:16

thanks having me on, it's been a blast.

Speaker 2: 41:31

Thank you for listening to the Revolutionary man podcast. Are you ready to own your destiny, to become more the man you are destined to be? Join the brotherhood that is the Awakened man at theawakendmannet and start forging a new destiny today.