I Tried Going With The Flow and Here's What Happened with Bob Martin

Explore the depths of mindfulness, ancient wisdom, and the pursuit of true happiness in this episode of the Revolutionary Man Podcast with Alain Dumonceaux. Special guest Bob Martin shares his extraordinary journey from a high-powered lawyer to a meditation teacher. Key takeaways include understanding the balance of going with the flow, the voice of internal validation, the importance of present-moment awareness, and how curating one's environment contributes to happiness. Join us in this transformative discussion and learn how to live with clarity, purpose, and flow.

Key Moments in this episode:
04:26 Bob Martin's Hero's Quest
12:08 The Concept of Going with the Flow
21:56 The Influence of Eastern Philosophy on Modern Spirituality
28:08 Understanding Thoughts and Meditation
29:29 The Role of External Validation
31:00 The Work Ethic of Happiness
33:53 The Power of Beginning Again
41:05 Curating Your Environment for Mental Health
45:42 Practical Steps to Manage Emotions
51:35 The Significance of Yin and Yang

How to reach Bob: 

Website: https://awiseandhappylife.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/awiseandhappylife

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bob-martin-995b30127/

Chapters

• 0:00 Living Beyond External Success
• 7:37 Bob Martin's Hero's Journey
• 17:04 Understanding the Flow of Life
• 25:40 Meditation as Self-Validation
• 36:06 Evolutionary Psychology and Modern Stress
• 42:56 Practical Steps for Handling Suffering
• 50:42 Final Insights and Episode Closing

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Imagine living a life that looks successful on the outside thriving career, financial stability and social status only to realize that, deep down, something is missing.

Speaker 1: 0:15

You're constantly pushing, striving and grinding, and yet the sense of peace and fulfillment that you crave remains just out of reach. Society teaches men that success is about control and power, but what if true mastery comes from surrendering to the natural flow of life? What if the key to happiness is found in doing more, in learning how to let go, adapt and to move with intention? In today's episode, we're going to explore the power of mindfulness, the wisdom of ancient traditions and the science behind happiness, giving you the tools to align your life with purpose, clarity and deep satisfaction. And so, if this sounds like a topic that you'd be interested in, I want you to take a moment and hit subscribe and even leave a comment on today's episode, and do please help share the show so that others can find this much content as well. It's your engagement that helps us spread this message and empower more men to live with confidence and purpose. With that, let's get on with today's episode.

Speaker 2: 1:18

The average man today is sleepwalking through life, many never reaching their true potential, let alone ever crossing the finish line to living a purpose through life. Many never reaching their true potential, let alone ever crossing the finish line to living a purposeful life. Yet the hunger still exists, albeit buried amidst his cluttered mind, misguided beliefs and values that no longer serve him. It's time to align yourself for greatness. It's time to become a revolutionary man. Stay strong, my brother.

Speaker 1: 1:47

Welcome everyone to the Revolutionary man Podcast. I'm the founder of the Awakened man Movement and your host, alan DeMonso. How would your life change if, instead of fighting against the currents of life, you learned how to move with them? And what if success, happiness and fulfillment weren't things you had to chase, but rather states of being you could cultivate from within? You know, mastery in life is about forcing outcomes, or it isn't about forcing outcomes. I should say it's about learning how to align with life's natural rhythms, cultivating with the mindset that leads to a lasting fulfillment.

Speaker 1: 2:30

Today we are going to explore how mindfulness, ancient wisdom and intentional living can transform our lives and how experience, success, happiness and relationships are the key to living a fulfilling life. To do that, allow me at this moment to introduce my guest. To do that, allow me at this moment to introduce my guest. Bob Martin is my guest today with a story that is truly extraordinary and entertaining and fun From a high-powered mob lawyer during Miami's wild cocaine cowboy days to a certified meditation teacher Talk about hitting two ends of the spectrum and is now with his master's in MSW to go with it and with his JD, bob has helped thousands of men to redesign their lives, their thinking and the life they totally dreamed of. Bob's journey isn't anything but extraordinary. Now, as a two-time published author and professor of wellness at Elon University, bob blends Taoist wisdom, brain science, psychology and humor to tackle everything from breaking free from limiting beliefs and finding clarity and resilience in life's chaos. Welcome to the show, bob. How are things, my friend?

Speaker 3: 3:35

Things are wonderful and I was enthralled by your introduction. There were so many great things that you said, so many great things that you said, and each one of them would be a podcast in and of itself, and I am just so looking forward to our conversation. That was just a beautiful intro.

Speaker 1: 3:57

Thank you so much, my friend, and I am so excited about having this conversation with you. As I was preparing and getting ready for this conversation, I just felt this need, this I this idea to be able to share this with the world and be an opportunity to help men really understand. We're in a really critical stage in life today. We're shifting the perspective of what it means to be a man is so important for us, and while we need to blend some of the old, ancient wisdom, we also have to look at how that can happen today. And so, to start us off, I'd like to ask you about your hero's quest we always talk about we're all on these heroes quests and tell us about your death and rebirth moment and how that experience shaped you into the man you are today and the work that you're doing.

Speaker 3: 4:45

Wow, was there a moment? Yes, if that it was an extended moment, I suppose if it was like bullet points, there would be the one and then there'd be the A and the B and the C. That's after it. One of those points was reading To Kill a Mockingbird.

Speaker 3: 5:07

When I was in my teens and learning about Atticus Finch, and I think I fell in love with Atticus Finch. I wound up being a lawyer, so I'm guessing it might have had something to do with that, but it was his gentle heroism, and I think that's the way to express it A gentle heroism, just simply doing what the next right thing is, not in an arrogant way, not for a pat on the back, but simply because it's the next right thing to do, and it ain't no big thing, it's just the next right thing to do. There was something about that humility and his ability to stand against the forces that he stood against that really moved me, so that would be one. I suppose. Another character that had some effect on me was Don Quixote de la Mancha. To dream the impossible dream, to fight the unbeatable foe, that kind of idealism that is not really realistic. It's funny. Can I share something with you that just happened?

Speaker 1: 6:24

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 6:26

So a friend of mine saw an old George Carlin skit and in that George Carlin skit he was berating the idea of rights and he was criticizing how we seem to think that rights are so important when it's convenient to us, but when and he goes on to say when the Japanese were interred during the Second World War, it didn't seem they had very many rights. And my friend asked me for my thoughts on that. So I was thinking about it for a while and it occurs to me that we are imperfect creatures but we have perfect aspirations. We try to create the ideal world that we would like to have, the impossible dream, the unbeatable, and then we try to live into it and we fail for the most part. But it's okay because we're imperfect creatures. But at least we have the aspirations, at least we have the dream, at least we know the direction, and if that has to be enough, then that has to be enough and it's okay. And I think those were some of the things early on that formed my character. And then, like you said in your introduction, we come to a place where we're losing it and it's all falling out of control. Maybe professionally we might be at the top of our game might be making money hand over foot. We go home, the first thing there's the bottle here and the wife's an alcoholic and the kids are forgotten and everything's falling apart and we feel out of control and we feel like our whole lives are nothing but a fake mask that we put on for the whole world. And if they only really knew, if they only really knew who I really am, that imposter thing. And Madison Avenue and the advertisers they don't help out much. They came up with the Marlboro man. You know the Marlboro man? You know the Marlboro man, the he-man. He-man sitting on his loyal steed with his fur-lined collar, overlooking his herd of stallions, smoking a cigarette. Yeah, and that's the image of a man. We deal with all that.

Speaker 3: 8:56

But the next thing that happened was I got a teacher. I found a teacher. It was in my 30s. I found a teacher. It was in my 30s. I was seeing a therapist and I found out that he was a top student and also the English language editor for a 72nd Shaolin Taoist master from the Shaolin Temple, the Kung Fu Bruce Lee's temple. And imagine 72 generations of handing wisdom down from father to son Just incredible. And I met him. And sometimes you meet people and you just say, wow, I know you got it and I want it, please teach me, please, please teach me. And then there was that. And I have to tell you one other thing. There was a friend of mine, john Berman, and the best way for me to describe him is that he was the Woody Allen type of fellow that always walks around with a cloud over his head and it always seems to be raining on John and he.

Speaker 3: 10:05

I flunked out of Boston University. I had a football scholarship and lost it, and I was living in a hippy-dippy apartment in 1969. And John kept telling me that I should be a lawyer. And he disappeared for a couple of weeks and came back. He had an envelope and in the envelope there was a postal money order, so I couldn't cash. It made out to the educational testing service for $350, which was the entrance fee to the law school aptitude test, and he said you should be a lawyer, go take this test.

Speaker 3: 10:45

And one law school took a chance on me one, and John was a heroin addict and he went clean the day I got accepted and he went into and he was going to be a paralegal and I was going to be Perry Mason. He was going to be my Paul Drake. Many of you might not know that reference. I was going to be. He was going to be my investigator.

Speaker 3: 11:06

Yeah, and he stayed with me and by my side and three days after I was sworn in through the bar exam, through law school, through the bar exam, three days after I was sworn in, he met some chick on the road who decided to get high and he overdosed and died. Oh man, road and decided to get high and he overdosed and died. Oh man. And so I don't know. You know what the divine is? It's above my pay grade. To me it's not a very important question because I'll find out when I die, and that's good enough. But I always felt that he had performed his mission and there was something very special about the fact that I had become a lawyer and so I owed him a great deal.

Speaker 1: 11:57

So I guess those were the big moments, those are fantastic moments, and I'm listening to you share your a bit of your story there and the thought that was going through my mind is just how you really maybe even before you recognize it you really just went with the flow, and I know you talk a lot about that today in your work, and so I think for many of us, especially men, we may tend to fight that a bit and not want to listen to that direction, whether that's something that's that little voice inside or somebody else is asking us. But when we do trust enough, wonderful things start to happen for us. So let's talk a little bit about what you mean about going with the flow, and how that has truly impacted your life and can impact our lives.

Speaker 3: 12:45

So Master Nee was just very special. I'm not kidding. If we would play the game of hide and seek, you could never find it One day. We were kidding around with him and we said why do they call you Master? And he goes, because I have mastered life. And he chuckled and he walked away. Let us think about that. So we cornered him a little later and we said to him no, come on, tell us what does it mean to master life? And he said when you have learned to interfere the least and have the appropriate effect, you have begun to master life. And he was dead serious, yeah, and I was left with what does that mean? Interfere the least? But then he taught us and I understand what he meant.

Speaker 3: 13:48

Now my wife is a real type, a task oriented woman, and I love her for it and she's very detailed oriented and I couldn't survive without her because I am the big visionary type. She goes what direction do we go in? And I go. We go left and she goes. Okay, I'm going to show you how to get there. So praise God for her. We don't, our brains don't act alike, but I couldn't survive without her.

Speaker 3: 14:17

Anyway, sometimes she wants to go do something because it is a task. It's on her desk, she wants to get it done. The important thing, it's a task that needs to be completed. And she'll say, hey, hon, let's do this. And I go no, not now. And she goes why not? And I say, I don't know, just not now. And then a day or so later something will happen that would have made all of the effort we would have put into the task irrelevant. And she'll look at me. She goes oh, I hate it when you do that. So timing is a piece of it. A timing is a piece of going with the flow.

Speaker 3: 15:05

I would say that there are two parts of going with the flow. One of them we have a misconception that somehow going with the flow means taking our hands off the wheel and allowing things to occur which, in another word, would be a wimp. If you're too far into going with the flow, then you can be taken advantage of. You're conciliatory. You yes, let's do it anything you want to do, and that's not a happy way to live either. If you are overly aggressive, you're going to waste a lot of energy and tick a lot of people off. Somewhere in the middle is where that balance is, and you only get there by making a lot of mistakes and growing older and having wisdom. So the two things that you need to know is what is the characteristic of the flow that you're in? That's the question people don't ask. And then the second is how do I align myself appropriately to this particular flow?

Speaker 3: 16:22

So if I'm on a river in a canoe and hopefully I'm going to go downstream, first of all that's the first thing you don't want to paddle upstream. That makes no sense. You've got to paddle downstream. You're on a nice, quiet river, paddling downstream. Life is but a dream. Everything's nice, sweet, life is good. We've all experienced those times.

Speaker 3: 16:45

But then there are times when there's white water, and then there's times when we look down the stream and there's a waterfall. And there are times when there are hurricanes and floods, and there are times when there are gentle rains and there are times when there are beautiful sunsets. So all of these are different flows and there are times when there are beautiful sunsets. So all of these are different flows and you act differently when you're in those flows. You don't act the same in whitewater that you act in calm water. You are attending to your canoe. When you're in whitewater, you're attending to it. You don't have to attend to it so much in calm water.

Speaker 3: 17:28

I often say that there are if you're out in the ocean, and I'm not talking about a riptide, but if you're out in the ocean, you simply want to get into shore, and it's a good distance. You know that there are three ways. One is you can panic and drown. Right, that's not helpful. The next is that you can be like my wife I have a task, I need to get to shore. I'm going to swim. Let's get it done. Swim and you will get to shore, but you'll probably be exhausted.

Speaker 3: 18:05

The other way is to take a look at the pattern and the cycle of the motion of the flow and see that sometimes it's going towards shore and sometimes it's going away from shore. So the appropriate way of aligning yourself when it's going towards shore is to attend to it and swim back. Give it all your energy. This is the time to expend energy, but then, when it turn around and it goes against you, you don't want to take your hands off and be swept out to sea, so that's not the right way. So you need to expend some energy, but you also have a chance to reserve your energy and allow it to build up, because you know that the tide is going to change, and then you will have the energy to swim back. That way you will have gotten to shore with the least effort possible and be ready to go do something else. You won't have exhausted yourself. And so there, I think we can understand Master Nee when he said interfere the least, yet have the appropriate effect.

Speaker 1: 19:20

Go right ahead and keep going.

Speaker 3: 19:21

In human behavior. I have a great idea and I say, alan, I got a great idea. But like you're thinking about meeting up with your bowling buddies this weekend, the time is just not right for me to force my idea upon you. The listening's not there Right.

Speaker 3: 19:43

So I can either force myself upon you, which is going to probably be ineffective and a waste of energy, I can just grumble that you don't want to listen to me and waste the time while I'm waiting. Or I can say, oh, let me think about what I wanted to tell him and can I polish it a little bit. And if I use the time of waiting to polish what I want to tell you, or maybe even think it over, or maybe I realize, maybe it wasn't such a great idea, there's a whole bunch of stuff. If I contemplate, use the moment to reflect and then when you turn around and say, so, bob, what was it you wanted to tell me? Now I'm ready to tell you, probably with fewer words, in a more polished way, in a listening that's open. I have interfered the least and I've had the appropriate effect the way you've really unpacked this for me is really outstanding.

Speaker 1: 20:50

And what I appreciated about is that you started talking and explaining to us that this idea of going with the flow is like a spectrum for us to be mindful of where we're sitting in that spectrum.

Speaker 1: 21:01

And then, as soon as you got into the analogy of the riptide, it really made to me.

Speaker 1: 21:07

It isn't about going with the flow, isn't about not doing anything, like you were saying, and then end up by maybe being taken advantage of or you're not really accomplishing things that you're setting forth to do, but to know when to exercise that energy and when it's time to go and then when it's time to hold back a little bit and conserve and think and contemplate, to do that so that you can be prepared to when it's time to go and then when it's time to hold back a little bit and conserve and think and contemplate, to do that so that you can be prepared to when it's time to go again.

Speaker 1: 21:33

And I had never really had that explained, had the idea of flow explained that way, and that the concept of the riptide really resonated with me. And so I can tell that this work that you've been doing with your teacher that has helped you and moved you along, and how the Taoist philosophy has really settled in deeply for you. And I'd like to talk a little bit now about how the between today, I really feel that there's a big shift in the spirituality movement, in the religious movement, even in how Christianity is starting to reshape and refine itself, and a lot of this is because of Eastern philosophies, things like Taoism, and so I want to talk a little bit about what. What lessons can we take as men, regardless of what tradition that we come from, some of these things that have been sitting there but we really haven't been able to implement them in our lives.

Speaker 3: 22:31

Yeah, so you mentioned Christianity, and I think that's a great place to start, because you know whether it was Lao Tzu writing in 500 BC, or whether it was the creation of the I Ching 4,000 years ago, or whether it was the teachings of Jesus, they all are the teachings. I mean, the cosmologies may be different, but the teachings are all the same. And let's just take a look for a moment at the two great commandments. Look for a moment at the two great commandments, okay, which is when anybody who is biblical will say there are all these rules in the Old Testament, but Jesus came and he gave us the two rules that we're to live by. One is love your God with all of your heart, your soul and your mind.

Speaker 3: 23:27

If we're full of self-doubt, if we're full of self-criticism, if that committee in the head is telling us that we're not good enough or that we're not ready or all of those other things, then our mind is full of that. How can we follow the commandment to love our God with all of our mind when our mind is littered with a bunch of junk which is not even ours? It's really just the conditioning that we grew up with. So was Jesus then commanding us to clear our minds. I don't mean to clear our thoughts, which is different, because people think meditation is about quieting your thoughts, and it is not Right. That's relaxation.

Speaker 3: 24:17

Relaxation is about quieting your thoughts, not meditation, but managing becoming a skillful manager of your thoughts manager of your thoughts Now going into the attic of your mind and saying, oh, I just noticed I keep having this repetitive thought and it's not very helpful. Maybe I don't need it, but that's another process. The other commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself. It was his commandment. What if you don't love yourself? What if you are highly critical of yourself? And look at the way he phrased it Not to love your neighbor, like he said, as yourself. Was he saying if we are self-critical, then we should be self-critical of our neighbor. Or was he saying that we need to learn how to love ourselves?

Speaker 3: 25:18

And if, from the Christian tradition, from the Christian perspective, what I would say is we need to love ourselves the way God loves us in order to really be able to love our neighbor, and so these are antithetical to the idea of being manly and selfish, self-absorbed, mamby-pamby, what is this self-compassion stuff? You need to do that, you need to do that and so learning to do that. So people say, okay, that sounds nice. So how do I do that? I got all these thoughts going on in my head and everything else and that's like walking into a gym and saying, oh, I like the way the guy's doing bicep curls with a 50 pound barbell. How do I do that? Yeah, you start with a five pound. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:20

Okay.

Speaker 3: 26:20

You start with it. It's a process of starting with very simple, easy exercises and learning to watch your thinking, and you don't start to cultivate things like generosity and loving kindness before you develop the basic skill of being able to watch your thoughts. Most of us live inside of our thoughts, right? That's not?

Speaker 2: 26:50

true being able to watch your thoughts.

Speaker 3: 26:51

Most of us live inside of our thoughts, right? We don't even think. We don't most of the time we don't think about our thoughts, but sometimes we do. Alan, I'm sure you've had the experience where you're talking to somebody and you're thinking, oh this isn't going very well.

Speaker 3: 27:06

Or the guy's not listening to me, or the guy's really interested, or he's really going to laugh when yes, or the guy's not listening to me, or the guy's really interested, or he's really going to laugh when I tell him the punchline. We've had this. That's meditation. That is meditation, but it's auto-drived meditation. It's not intentional meditation, intentional meditation. And so if we can just learn how to have that same experience, but intentionally, in a way that we're actually being aware of it happening and being awake to it, I don't know if I'm making sense. Let me see If I say, alan, I had a thought, now, even though I generally live inside my thoughts, I am recognizing there that I had a thought. So when I say I had a thought, I'm recognizing that I'm not my thought, it's something I had. That's right. Right.

Speaker 3: 28:09

All of our thoughts are things that we have, even the ones which say I don't like that guy, or he shouldn't wear his pants like that, or that was disrespectful. It's still just thoughts that I'm having, although they don't feel like that. They feel like it's me. But the fact of the matter is they are thoughts that we're having and what we do in meditation through a very simple practice that doesn't take years and you don't have to sit on a cushion. There is a practice which, inside of a week or two, you begin to identify with the I. When you say I had a thought, who is the I? You begin to identify with the I. That's having the thoughts. And the moment we can start to I know it sounds weird multi-personality. We've had the experience oh, this is going well when we had that other. So the moment we can really start to work that a little bit, the five pound weights, and move into that observer of our thoughts, that's where we can start to do the work.

Speaker 1: 29:28

Completely agree. I think for me, when I started doing this podcast and doing men's work, what really was drawing me to this was I recognized in myself how much external validation I needed in my life in order to feel somewhat okay.

Speaker 1: 29:44

And hearing you share today during this episode, I recognize that there's so much more work that still needs to be done, not just for me, but for all men.

Speaker 1: 29:54

And then the reason I say that is we still we live in a society here in the west that is very much externally driven validation, right, that kind of what kind of house do you live in, what kind of car do you drive, you know what status are you at, and when we recognize that our power truly is more really about being able to master ourself.

Speaker 1: 30:17

And I like how you talked about and brought introduced meditation in the idea of I had a thought and that is meditation. And many of us think that we have to be sitting on a cushion, cross-legged, doing OM, and that's meditation. And while that's an aspect, that is one part of it, we meditate maybe different another word to use it is we cogitate or we contemplate things that we're working on, things that we're working on, and when we do that and we go back to our other thought about flow, then we're allowing the transmission of that information to come to us and through us. And so I love the way that we're stitching this conversation today together because I want to go to how. Really, what I'm also talking about here is don't think I don't think we're as happy anymore as we used to be, and you talk about in your work, the work ethic of happiness. So let's start to, let's start to unpack that and how that the idea have what happiness is all about, how that can really be make a profound change in our life before we go there.

Speaker 3: 31:27

There, I want to go back. I love the use the word stitch, because that's what we're doing we're stitching it together. But I want to go back to something you just said about self-validation. Yeah, okay. So the first meditation that we learn is breath awareness. I'm going to take a moment with this, because it goes right to that point. Take a moment with this, because it goes right to that point. So the instructions are basically to form an intent. Have you ever been talking to somebody and realize that you're not listening to them anymore?

Speaker 1: 31:58

My wife.

Speaker 3: 32:00

And have you noticed that when you notice that you're not listening, there's a little feeling of startle? It's like almost you say to yourself oh, it's like your brain knew on some level that you wanted to listen and it goes yeah, not listening, right? We call that waking up, because the moment before that you were in a fog of rumination and projection about what you should have said and whether you left the stove on and blah, blah, blah, which is a normal default place of the brain. And I can get into evolutionary psychology and tell you why it's appropriate and why we do it. But just take it for now. It is a normal, appropriate action of the brain. In meditation, the instructions are simply form an intention to put your attention on your breath or on a candle. I'll make it on a candle. Within two seconds your mind goes nuts. You start thinking about this and what I gotta do and your list of stuff and what my wife's gonna think and I didn't do this for my kids and birthday's coming up and all this stuff.

Speaker 3: 33:16

for some of a lot of it's critical yeah but then at some point your mind's gonna go hey, you're not paying attention to the candle. And then there's going to be a flood of judgments oh, I'm not doing it right, I didn't focus. If you hang with it for a little bit, you run out of criticisms. You literally run out. You said all the criticisms you could possibly say. So now all you're left with is looking at the candle and saying let me put my attention back on the candle and let me begin again, begin again. Then your mind goes off. You wake up, you return and you begin again. Then your mind goes off and you return and you begin again.

Speaker 3: 34:06

Alan, it's in the coming back and beginning again where the healing occurs. It's not the lack of focus, that's not what it's about. It's in coming back and beginning again, because every time you do that, you're validating yourself. That validation that you look for from the outside, you start generating it from within, because you're saying I can do this. I can fail and start over. I can fail and start over. And that very fact of beginning again, coming back and beginning again, teaches you to tolerate discomfort. It teaches you that you're okay. It teaches you that it's okay to fail and, as you learn it's okay to fail, you develop the strength of tolerating discomfort, and that allows you to step out and try new things in life and after a while it gets you to the place where you can say to the world I am what I am and I is what I is, and I'm Popeye the Sailor man too. And that's where the strength and stability of meditation comes from in coming back and beginning again and beginning again. So it's not about losing focus.

Speaker 3: 35:26

It's about beginning again. It's about getting back up on the horse. So we tell our kids, get back up on the horse. But every time we begin again, we're forming a neural pathway that says that's who we are, that's who I am. I'm the person that tries stuff, and when it doesn't happen, I begin again. And people that can begin again, that have that skill of being able to begin again, these are the people that develop their courage and their stand-up-edness, and so that's where the healing happens.

Speaker 1: 36:01

Love that. Wow, just some great truths there. And I hadn't really considered the idea, because I have a morning practice, excuse me, where I step in and say do a little prayer, and then I have some meditation time. And today was one of those typical days where my mind's everywhere and it's thinking about everything and and and I've learned now to try not to judge that too much and to be with it and but I hadn't considered the idea of it was building strength, because that's where the healing was and that's where it's happening. So I love that you've tied that together and it I'm already projecting my tomorrow when I'm back doing my tomorrow's routine. This idea of healing. Oh, isn't that interesting. I was just thinking about whatever I didn't do the dishes last night and I can just come back. Okay, I'll just start again.

Speaker 3: 36:58

Just start again, just start again.

Speaker 1: 37:04

And I think, for when we think of it from a masculine perspective, we're truly learning how to master ourselves, and that's where true strength lies. Isn't about having the biggest biceps or the, the muscle car or any of this other stuff that we would think is masculine. It's about being in, being having opportunity to master who we are, and so I really appreciate that we're bringing masculinity into this concept and this idea.

Speaker 3: 37:28

Yeah, it reminds me of Thomas Edison's quote I never failed, but I did discover how not to make a light bulb 1,400 times.

Speaker 1: 37:39

Yeah, no, kidding For sure. So I had said in the intro, you started your career and you mentioned it as well about being a lawyer, and then you've shifted from that and you're teaching and using from a Taoist philosophy. But through that journey you've seen the idea of what the human nature is all about. And so let's talk a little bit about how this transition and how we can transform ourselves when we're in careers whether it's we're lawyers or whatever it is that we're doing and when we allow ourselves to be transformed, how that can also make an impact in our lives.

Speaker 3: 38:19

So the Buddha said, you must put guardians at the portals to your mind. And in saying that he discovered something that brain science says has confirmed as true and again I could go into evolutionary psychology and we were hunters, gatherers, in very dangerous, physically demanding, very low caloric environments for 1.7 million generations. That's the creature that we are, that is the body and mind that has evolved. We've only had agriculture for 500 generations, so we have not evolved into a modern version of Homo sapiens. We are still the hunter-gatherers, and because of that our brains work in a certain way, and the most powerful thing in our brain is the avoidance of danger and survival. That you got to be able to survive, to do anything else, and so our brain is highly sensitive to anything that may present danger. Unfortunately, today, danger is no longer a snake or a tiger, it's a deadline.

Speaker 3: 39:35

Right, it's a deadline, right, it's the girl saying yes, it's having to wait at the bar, it's having too long a line, it's being caught in traffic. All has the same physiological effect as seeing a poisonous snake in front of you, and we're designed to be sensitive to it and to take it in. The only problem is we can no longer identify the danger, and so we're chronically stressed out, looking for the solution, which is undefined and it's tough. We're not designed for the world that we're living in Evolutionarily. We're just not that we're living in evolutionarily, we're just not. So we have to do something to balance it out intentionally, because otherwise life will take us down the rabbit hole. And we are designed for the hunter-gatherer that we are. Look, we go to a gym. Right, why do we go to a gym? We go to a gym because we don't spend the whole day hunting. We should be out hunting all day, but we don't. So we know that there's something wrong with our bodies and feel they feel like crap because they're not getting enough physical exercise. So we artificially increase it by going to the gym, and we know that's healthy and that's good for us. Yeah, we don't pay the same attention to our minds. Our minds are also from back then.

Speaker 3: 41:05

So I would say this one is an easy answer. It really is Curate your environment, put beautiful things around you. If there is a picture of a time when you were deeply moved by something, put that in your workspace. If there is a particular thing that you saw at a little marketplace, get it and put it on your thing. Put little tasty snacks in it. Experience awe. Modern research is telling us that awe is the positive side of PTSD, that when you experience awe it immediately rewires your brain, just like PTSD rewires it from trauma. So curate your environment. Put beauty in your life. We have a responsibility. We put it in those starkest terms we have a responsibility to beauty.

Speaker 1: 42:08

Love that, love that I'm sitting here thinking about the episode and the things that we're talking on, and I just can't help but wonder that there might be a man that's listening to this podcast and maybe he's feeling lost or he's stuck and he's at his death and rebirth moment, and so what would you say to that gentleman, that individual? It would be the first step for him to take today to shift his mindset and move towards more, maybe have a life that's more fulfilling.

Speaker 3: 42:41

I would start with this statement this is suffering. This is suffering, I am suffering. This is what suffering feels like.

Speaker 2: 42:52

This is it.

Speaker 3: 42:54

I'm in it. I would recognize this is suffering minute and I would recognize this is suffering. And then I would say I'd ask start thinking about two things what are the words? The precise words, not the kind of words. Oh, I'm thinking, I'm being self-critical, I don't want that. What are the exact words that you're saying? Are you saying you're not good enough? Are those the exact words?

Speaker 3: 43:27

Think about what are the exact words and then think about where you are feeling the sense of overwhelm, where is the physical sensation of it? What are the words? Where is the physical sensation? Where do you feel it? Probably that will be a very difficult question, because we've become so disconnected to the physical sensation of our emotions that we generalize them so much that, oh, all over, or I feel it in my head, or it's just I feel hot. Stay with it. Where I just worked with a young lady who had come to the conclusion that she did not deserve to be happy and after a while we were able to identify it. It's really weird. I've never had this before, but she was able to identify a place that was about three inches below her left collarbone. Once she said it's not my heart, it's right here, she was able to actually find the dot where she said and then I think that you will notice that when you concentrate on the thoughts that you're having and the physical sensations that you are having, you're grounding yourself in the present moment.

Speaker 3: 44:45

You can't be aware of a physical sensation in the future or the past. You have to be right here right now. Have to be right here right now, and you may notice that by the time you spend a little time thinking about the exact words and the physical sensations that you're having, you may come to the conclusion that there really is nothing happening in this present moment. That's dangerous. So all of that sense of overwhelm and everything else, you're catastrophizing in the future. Now I can say to you oh, just bring yourself into the present. That doesn't mean anything. But if you actually look and try to examine what the physical sensations are that you're feeling, you are bringing yourself into the present moment. And when you look around you say, oh really, there's no tiger or snake in here. There's nothing right now. That is putting me in danger. And that's a practice that it gets easier. If you do it once, it's a little difficult, it's a little less difficult the next time.

Speaker 3: 45:50

But one of the tricks that meditators always use in order to be able to better manage their emotions is what am I thinking? Where am I feeling it? What am I thinking? Where am I feeling it? We even will do things like if I'm really having trouble controlling an emotion, I might start asking myself things like where is my emotion? What shape is my emotion? What color is my emotion? If my emotion could hold water, how much water would it hold? So I really start putting a color and a feeling and the moment I start doing that, it brings me into the present moment and I realized that there's no danger at my breathing close, my breathing slows down.

Speaker 3: 46:43

The other thing, another thing to be very practical intentionally slow your breathing, intentionally, even if you have, I like, I like the four eight breathing yeah, breathe in to a 4 count and out to an 8 count. So it's in 2, 3, 4, out 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. What happens just this is helpful to know is that when you slow your breathing down intentionally, you are slowing the movement of your diaphragm. Diaphragm is connected to a nerve called the vagus nerve. The vagus nerve is the longest nerve in your body and it touches all of your organs and when you intentionally slow down the motion of your diaphragm, it sends a signal to your brain that you're out of danger and your brain will send a signal to your heart to slow down.

Speaker 3: 47:43

So you can reverse the process of I'm scared and it sends it down and my heart starts pumping and my diaphragm starts. It goes from here to here. You can actually go from there to there. You can actually go from the diaphragm to the head. So if you intentionally slow your diaphragm down, even if it's, you want to breathe faster, because mostly when you're scared you're a chest breather and now you're going to try to drop it down a little. But it may seem difficult, it may seem like your body doesn't want to slow down. Yeah, just do it with counting or just slow your breathing down. Don't try to, don't try to de-stress yourself, don't try to stop the thinking, don't try to make yourself feel better.

Speaker 3: 48:35

Your only intention is to slow yourself, feel better. Your only intention is to slow, literally physically slow your breathing down. Okay, and it won't take five, 10 breaths before you start to feel it.

Speaker 1: 48:48

That's perfect. What a great way to do it. Really practical steps for us to be able to start to get re-centered. I just love that's outstanding. You mentioned at the start of this conversation a few important people that have come into your life, and so somebody and maybe it was one of those individuals, or from somewhere else, maybe it was out of a book, but what would be, would you say, would be. It was the best piece of advice that you've been given, and how is that still serving you today?

Speaker 3: 49:16

Best piece of advice. How is that still serving you today, best piece of advice.

Speaker 3: 49:32

There's so many that are running through my head right now, but what comes to mind is Carl Sagan has a little YouTube video called A Pale Blue Dot and it is a picture of the Earth from outside of Jupiter and all it is a pale blue dot hanging in a stream of sunlight. So incredibly insignificant, and I know this sounds bad. Life is hard and then you die, and that's all there is to it, man, that's it. Life is hard and then you die. So you know we really are incredibly insignificant.

Speaker 1: 50:15

Yes.

Speaker 3: 50:16

And there is something that gives us the ability to be so much bigger than we are in recognizing our insignificance. Not meaning anything allows me to mean anything I wanted to be. I don't know, that's a little, maybe that's a little weird, but that's what comes to mind. Go watch that Pale Blue Dot by Carl Sagan on YouTube.

Speaker 1: 50:45

Absolutely. We sure will. You know, bob, of everything that we spoke about today, and maybe there was something we didn't get a chance to touch on, what would be a takeaway you'd want our listeners to have?

Speaker 3: 50:54

That you're not your thoughts. You're so much bigger than your thoughts.

Speaker 1: 51:13

You're so much more than your thoughts. You're the about living with purpose, and so your insights has really given us some framework now that we can start finding some balance, hopefully some inner peace for those that are listening today and start to master our life and both men are interested in getting a hold of you and participating in your work. What's the best way for them to do that?

Speaker 3: 51:33

And one more thing I want to say. The symbol of Taoism is the yin, yang, yes, the male and female energy. Don't be mistaken in thinking that men are made out of yang and women are made out of yin. We are a combination, all of us are a combination of male and female energies. If we didn't have the female energy in us, we wouldn't be able to relate to women. If they didn't have the female energy in us, we wouldn't be able to relate to women. If they didn't have male energy in them, they wouldn't be able to relate to us. So, honor the two energies.

Speaker 3: 52:08

Okay, I just had to say that. Yeah, if you want to know anything, I have some e-books that are free and downloadable that answer all these questions, because everybody keeps asking them. So I figured I'd write it down and I tell you. I'm coming up, I just finished and I'm going to post. It is a self-assessment on how mindful are you, and I'm going to post that on my website as well. It's going to be fun, but anyway, go to my website and everything is there awiseandhappylifecom.

Speaker 1: 52:42

Perfect. I want to make sure that information's in today's show notes, as well as wherever else that you're hanging out on the internet, and so, as we close today's episode, I want to challenge all of us with a simple but profound question Are you truly living with clarity, purpose and flow? Too often we get caught up, trying to control everything, missing the opportunity to align ourselves with what life is offering us, and that's why I also want to introduce you some work that we're doing here, and it's called Living With Integrity. This is a program that's designed to help men reconnect with their purpose, master their mindset and create a life of balance and fulfillment. So, if you're ready to stop resisting and to start flowing, take the first step today. Go to memberstheawakenedmannet and take our free integrity challenge. It's an opportunity for you to live with purpose, lead with clarity, so let's get started right now. Thank you so much for listening. Have a great day.

Speaker 2: 53:45

Thank you for listening to the Revolutionary man podcast. Are you ready to own your destiny, to become more the man you are destined to be? Join the brotherhood that is the Awakened man at theawakendmannet and start forging a new destiny today.