How Fathers Can Lead with Confidence and Connection with Todd Sarner

In this episode of the Revolutionary Man Podcast, host Alain Dumonceaux is joined by family coach and licensed therapist Todd Sarner to explore the challenges and triumphs of fatherhood. They delve into the importance of being present over being perfect, the middle path between dominance and connection, and the need for fathers to be positive, empathetic leaders in their families. The discussion also covers the significant influence of childhood experiences and the role of mentorship in becoming an evolved masculine presence. Tune in to hear practical advice and inspiring stories that will help you lead your family with strength and compassion.

 Key moments in this episode:

04:05 Todd's Journey to Family Coaching

13:10 Navigating Masculinity and Emotional Health

24:52 The Role of Men in Leadership at Home

28:00 Differences in Communication: Work vs. Home

32:17 Parenting Challenges and Learning New Skills

42:16 The Hero's Journey and Personal Growth

45:21 Final Thoughts and Resources for Fathers

How to reach Todd:

Website: https://transformativeparenting.com/

Social Media Contact Information:

FB: https://facebook.com/tparenting

IG:  https://www.instagram.com/tparenting/

X: https://x.com/tparenting

In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddsarner/

YT: https://www.youtube.com/@TransformativeParenting

Chapters

• 0:00 The Pressure And Promise Of Fatherhood
• 0:54 Call To Share And Set The Stage
• 1:25 Show Intro And Big Questions
• 2:29 Meet Todd Sanner And His Mission
• 4:10 From Treating Kids To Coaching Parents
• 9:56 Men’s Groups, Masculinity, And Holding Space
• 15:30 Emotional Middle Path And Free Will
• 21:04 Leading At Home Versus Leading At Work
• 27:10 Respect, Attachment, And Real Authority
• 32:38 Beyond Gentle Or Harsh: The Middle Way
• 39:44 A Message To Overwhelmed Fathers
• 45:04 Resources, Next Steps, And Closing Challenge

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

One of the hardest roles a man will ever take on isn't in the office. It's not in the military. It's not even playing it on the playing field. It's going to be in the living room. It's the fatherhood. It's parenting, and it's leading a family. And yet so many of us step into this role without a playbook. We want to be strong, steady, and present for our kids, but reality is we start to lose our temper. We feel exhausted and we juggle the weight of career, marriage, and expectations while quietly wondering, am I getting any of this stuff right? To add to the endless advice, there's books and blogs and Instagram reels about gentle parenting, and suddenly the pressure starts to mount, doesn't it? But what if the answer isn't about being perfect? What if the real gift we can give our kids is not performance, but our presence? So now that's what we're going to dig into today. It's going to be a bit messy. It's beautiful and it's a transformational journey, what fatherhood's all about. But before we dive in, I just want to ask you one favor. If you know a father or if you are one who's been wrestling with the pressure of getting it right, then please hit that like sub and subscribe button. Let's share this episode. These are the kinds of conversations that are not just for the two of us who are going to have it today, but it's for the next generation who's going to go on and live with the legacies that we're leaving behind. And so with that, let's get on with today's episode.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25

The average man today is sleepwalking through life. Many never reaching their true potential, let alone never crossing the finished line to living a purposeful life. Yet, the hunger still exists, albeit buried amidst its cluttered mind, discredited beliefs and values that no longer serve him. It's time to align yourself for greatness. It's time to become a revolutionary man. Stay strong, my brother.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54

Welcome everyone to the Revolutionary Man Podcast. I'm the founder of the Awaken Man movement and your host, Alan DMonso. Before we get started, I have a couple questions I'd like you to consider. What do your kids actually feel when you walk into the room? Your calm presence or the hidden tension you carry from the day? And are you leading your family from grounded confidence or from the pressure that you need to perform? Truth is, kids don't need perfect parents. They need present ones. And presence is something that every one of us can choose, and we can do that starting today. And so in order for us to do that and understand it, allow me to introduce my guest. Todd Sanner is a family coach, licensed therapist, and the founder of the Transformative Parenting, where he has spent over 20 years leading parents to shift from survival mode to confident, connected leadership, not just at home, but in their lives. And so he started this career working directly with children, but quickly realized that the greatest breakthrough was going to happen when he empowered the parents instead. And so through his writing and coaching and community work, Todd challenges high-achieving parents to just slow down, let go of perfectionism and step into a leadership role that fosters resilience and connection. He's really passionate and he's equipping fathers with and mothers to raise emotionally strong kids while breaking the generational cycles that hold families back. And so welcome to the show today, Todd. I'm so grateful you're here today.

SPEAKER_02: 3:22

I'm excited to be here, Alan. I so appreciate the work you're doing. That was a great intro. I love your question. What do your kids feel when you walk in the room as a father? I think we're going to have a problem today. And the problem is how do we do this in less than five hours? Because I can already tell we're going to have a great conversation and really appreciate what you're doing and having me here.

SPEAKER_01: 3:46

Absolutely. And we're going to do our best to pack in a ton of value, as I know we always do on this show. So I have no fears with that. And so, Todd, every one of us, every man has a turning point in our lives, don't we? And it's that moment when the old story just no longer works for us. And so, what was that turning point for you that shifted you from working with kids directly to equipping parents instead?

SPEAKER_02: 4:10

Maybe some other moments will come up as we go that were more big, shocking, revolutionary moments. I think the one you're talking about was more a quiet one that happened over a little bit of time. I went into psychotherapy originally because my parents had a really messy divorce. They didn't do it well. And I went to therapy when I was like 13. My brother and sister and I all had to go to therapy, court ordered because the judge, I guess I wasn't there, but the judge felt like things were so messy and so antagonistic, and that these kids must be in a bad place. So he sent us, and I just loved it. I went to see Dr. Marty, and he was just this kind but strong presence, and he listened, and I was like, ooh, I want to do that. I want to be that. And I didn't think about the masculine aspect of it at the time. I didn't think about it kind of father figure-wise at the time, but I can look back and go, oh, I needed that steady presence. I needed that holding of space. And I think even though my dad was struggling to be that for different reasons, I it really inspired me. And I've talked about that story before, but I haven't talked about it from the kind of masculine holding space. But Marty really did provide that. I went back to him when I was like 20, 19 or 20 for a few sessions and really valued that. He passed away a little bit later. Then with the same theme, I'm done with graduate school. I'm becoming a father myself. And I have all sorts of training with working with children and foster and adoptive care, young boys in group homes who were just on the edge, the fringes of the system, and who might be incarcerated because the really difficult situations in their life. And becoming a father myself around that time to a boy who's now 22 years old. And becoming mentored by my main mentor, Dr. Gordon Newfeld, fellow Canadian brother of yours, who is a UBC professor and things, and wrote the book Hold On to Your Kids. I started realizing, wait, I'm not supposed to be the answer for your children. I'm supposed to be your helper in the background as a parent, as a man, as a woman, as a parent, to help you be who your child needs you to be. It's not my job. And I'm not saying therapy is never useful for kids. It was for me because, but mainly because my parents weren't able to be there at the time. But in general, becoming a dad and being mentored by Dr. Neufeld, who was saying you are the answer for your kids. It really changed. And everything that I had studied for and trained for and paid ungodly amounts of money to get to that certificate in my hand, I went, oh no, I need to work with the parents. And so these days it's half my practice. I'm doing parent coaching and I'm working with men and women. Usually the woman is the one who comes to me first. The man comes in kicking and screaming. And then we bond and he gets my perspective and he becomes very enthusiastic about the work. Same kind of guys you're talking to, Alan. Achieving in life, doing very well. Mill Valley, California is where I started, which is this very affluent Marin County, right above San Francisco. A lot of guys, founders of tech companies in the city. And then the other half of the work, and I'm sorry for this very long answer to your question, thought it would give us a little foundation, is marriage counseling. And I only do marriage counseling with couples who are parents. And so in both roles, I'm just trying to help them be essentially who their kids need them to be and provide that support and all sorts of things we could talk about with that. But just as a side note, because I brought up the theme, Dr. Newfell became like a father figure, wise male presence in my life and really helped out a lot in my journey. Lots of other pieces to that. But how's that for a start?

SPEAKER_01: 8:56

Oh, that was outstanding. Lots of stuff to unpack. There I was making copious notes here. And I there's a few things that you brought up, and the idea of men coming, kicking and screaming. I find that even to this day with guys coming and checking out men's work and doing it. And we have we tend to have these stories that we tell ourselves. And I thought a lot of it does come from our childhood and how and the things that we went through. And I know the word trauma tends to be a this real catchword in today's.

SPEAKER_02: 9:24

It's thrown around a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 9:25

Around and when everybody has their dose. But the challenge is that are we prepared to step into it and actually do that, do the work, regardless of what the story is behind it. And I find that when we're brave enough as men, we can start to do that. And so I can remember you talked, you used a phrase there about holding space. And so it's used a lot in in men's circles and that. So I just thought we should. We haven't I haven't talked about holding space in a really long time. So I wanted to unpack that for the listener today to understand about what we actually mean by that. Because I think when you hear it, maybe the first one of the first things you think of is that that kind of doesn't sound like very masculine, but it in actuality it is.

SPEAKER_02: 10:07

Oh, it's about the most positive masculine thing that exists. Yeah. Yeah, I guess let's have a back and forth about that because it there is so much we could talk about. I'm influenced a lot in these conversations by I was in a men's group at a particularly tough time in my life when I was trying as hard as I could to hold my family unit in intact with my son's mother. We were never married, but I was trying to hold that together. I there's nothing I wanted less than to live apart from my son or to not be a family unit. People don't get married or and I've heard some of your stories too, Alan, but people don't get married and have kids thinking, hey, let's do this separately and have half the holidays and have other people in our kids' lives like acting as parents with nobody does that. So I was at a really desperate spot in my life where I was like, I need to hold this together. I have to do, I have to do whatever I can. And part of where that led me is I was reading a lot of David Data, Robert Glover, all the things that guys are reading in men's group circles and things. And I joined a men's group in San Rafael, California, where I was living at the time. Jim Benson, amazing coach. He has a good profile out there. He'd be a great guest for you sometime. He had a lot of experience in tantric work. He trained with David Data, he trained with Robert Glover and being with that group of guys where it was so critical to me that nobody was sitting there going, women this and women that, and these stupid it was like guys being honest and being vulnerable with each other and trying to strive for being a positive masculine presence and and be like, how can we be better? And that was so valuable to me. But yeah, one of the things that I read in data that I would read and different things was about this holding space. And data is like talks about the positive masculine and the evolved masculine, and how all of us have masculine and feminine aspects. And I always find like I have to be like, I sound like I'm being politically correct or trying really hard to virtue signal that I'm we all have, it's just true. We all have masculine and feminine, the yin and the yang. And I just find in the a lot of the heterosexual couples that I work with, the man is a little bit more like wanting to identify with the masculine presence and the woman in that in the home and the context of being a wife and mother would like to be more able to be in her feminine presence. That's not always true, yeah, but in general, that's what I find. And people like tell me if I'm getting too far afield. I'm gonna try to bring this together. People like Daniel Siegel, the psychiatrist who I did some training with, talked about mental health and emotional health. One of the simplest definitions is that we balance the left brain and the right brain. We balance the intellectual and the logical and the need for structure and the right brain, which is more emotional, spiritual, spatial, right? And that we can be more left, we can be more right, but knowing both and being able to be in both is where we're better problem solvers, right? Yes, we resonating, we're resonating so far on this. There are positive masculine aspects to me, which are being able to be grounded in that more left-brain energy, but have a knowledge and a knowing and a ability to be with the right, and providing a place where you can be emotional, feminine presence, but I'm not gonna jump in the river with you. I'm gonna stay on you're being emotional right now. That's okay. There is value in the emotional, there is wisdom in the emotion. There can be negative masculine and there can be negative feminine where we're in anger and control, or we're in just like unrelenting emotionality. But me being able to sit here and be what we call in psychology and spirituality an aware observer, and I can just hold space for what's happening and I can watch the storm. I can say no. If something's crossing a line, we can get into boundaries. Great, great topic. But I can hear you and I can strive to understand what's going on underneath the storm. I can try to understand what the truth is, and I don't feel like I have to jump into the rapids. So I guess it's not a complete answer at this point, Alan, but that's where I start to go. Is to me, what I love about your message is not like, oh, you have to do this because you have to deal with that. It's more like this is a hero's journey. This is a call to adventure. This, and you use that language, which I love, this is a call to adventure for you, man, that listening to this podcast, to be better, to be more whole, to be more complete, to take those parts of you that aren't all the way mature yet, that want to react and want to get justice, like a teenager or whatever, grow those parts up so that you are making choices and you have free will over what you're doing. And in parent coaching and in the marriage counseling, I find myself in different ways trying to elicit that and to support that and encourage that. And sometimes I can be a little challenging with guys about that, but it's always from love. It's come on, come on, you can do better than this. And I hope there was an I hope there was an answer in there.

SPEAKER_01: 16:18

Yeah, you made a you said a statement there that I hadn't heard before about holding space, and you talked about being able to observe the storm and not jump in it. And I think that is such a great metaphor for what we mean about this holding space. And I've talked about in the intro about this idea of presence. When we have limited skills, and let's face it, for many men growing up, we have limited skills. We've stifled how we've to uh attach to our emotions, the emotions we do attach to, generally speaking, are not the healthiest for us. At least we haven't learned how to use utilize them yet healthy in a healthy way. And so we either express ourselves in terms of dominance and anger, or we suppress it and we cower down and we do nothing with it. And that was more of the latter. That was my history, really, of just emotion, emotions, and then exploding.

SPEAKER_02: 17:13

And then it was just that's one of the most that's one of the most common patterns that men have. There's not a lot of patterns, and that's one of the main patterns. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:23

We could talk about fawning, the fawning instinct. And a lot of guys I find these days, like most of the men I work with mean and we can get into this whole thing about demonizing men and masculinity and things. I I can find myself almost going along sometimes with oh gosh, us guys sometimes, we just don't have emotional intelligence. But then, but it's usually said from Brotherhood and all of us, and we there are reasons. But men are really being, I think, demonized in a lot of ways or made fun of. I to me, I lost a little bit of my thread there, but to me, a lot of it is about free will. Is do I have the ability to make choices based on what I want to do, or am I doing something because my dad did it or I was programmed to do it or whatever? And that bugs the heck out of me. That really, a professor in grad school brought that up. He was talking about free will and choice and how unconscious drives one of my, I'm going off on such a tangent, one of my most quoted psychological quotes of all time is from one of my heroes, Carl Jung, who said, until you make what is unconscious conscious, it directs your life and you will call it fate. And that to me is like the essence of psychology or one of the main essences. But yeah, not jumping into the river. And I think one of the main myths of masculinity is that men aren't emotional. It's just not true. It just manifests in the ways that you just said, Alan, is I stuff and I stuff because I'm avoiding conflict or the thread I was saying before, and I lost a little bit was I'm trying to be a feminist informed post-macho integrated guy who's a good guy, and I'm equals with my woman in, of course, because that makes sense to me. It doesn't make sense the all the stuff that you know happened before about men asserting dominance over women. But in that, I'm losing the essence of my positive masculinity. Yes. And sometimes I'm under I'm thinking I'm not being emotional, but you are. It's just coming up as anger. Yeah. And it's coming up as stuffing your feelings because you're afraid of conflict. And there's something in the middle of. So I think that's one of the main themes that's surfacing here, Alan, is this middle path, right? That's right. Is that there's a middle path, and that middle path is I can say what I feel, I can say no to things that are destructive, but I can be loving in that. I can be kind. I can strive to empathize with you. And empathy doesn't mean I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01: 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 20:18

Like I don't need to agree with this huge wave of emotion coming at me with things that aren't factually accurate all the time. I can try to empathize with where is that coming from? How are you feeling? Yes. So again, a whole bunch in there, but I think that's the work, right? Is like how do we figure out how to be that middle path of strength, but empathy. And that goes to our partner, but that also goes to our kids.

SPEAKER_01: 20:45

Sure. And it's a it is really about, you're absolutely right. It is about that middle path. I was thinking, as you were saying that, one of the books that really propelled me as I was going through my journey and starting to get into men's work was David Wagner's book on called Backbone.

unknown: 21:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:01

And he talks in that book about the red path and the I think the red path and the black path, right? And it's just about more about this middle road, this idea of just being more centered and more grounded. That doesn't mean we're emotionalists. I also think there's lots of myths around what being stoic really means. It doesn't mean that we're completely emotional. It means we have, for me, anyways, that we have can we have control about it. I recognize there's things happening in my body right now that are elevating my sense of reaction. And if we can, the more tools we can develop within ourselves, then we have, to your point earlier, free will to choose a different path. But if the only thing that we have is a hammer, then everything looks like that, like a nail.

SPEAKER_02: 21:45

Looks like a nail, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:46

And so it's developing that skill.

SPEAKER_02: 21:49

And part of why I wanted to be here with you today is not at the exclusion of women, but I think most of that work is meant to be done with men. Is I want to show up in my relationship. I'm engaged to somebody I've known since I was 14 years old. We've been together a few years. We're getting married in February as we record this a few months away. I absolutely love her and I want to show up and I want to be, I want to be able to bring my true self. I want to be able to be vulnerable. I want to be able to share my feelings. But a lot of the stuff that's rough, any stuff that's still in there that is still in the unconscious, any of the stuff where I notice myself getting reactive or angry inside, she's not my it's not her job to be my therapist. It's not her job to work that out with me, really. If you asked her, she'd probably go, Yeah, of course. I'd work out anything with him. But it's not really her job. And that takes me to another side note. But I work with a lot of women. They usually are the ones who come to me first in couples counseling and in parenting, like I said. And I get a lot of my my in one way or another, my husband is being like a little boy. And uh, how many times I've heard the term when people ask me how many kids I have, I say four, three bore children born to me and my husband. That can border on what I'm talking about. I don't believe in talking down about men or because we have our challenges and we have our challenges for reasons, okay? And we live in a culture that's uh cultures that I know exists in Canada as well, because I have a lot of friends up there that boys don't cry, and you gotta be manly and you got it, right? And I think because of that, men are confused and they're in a desert in some ways, and they're trying to find their way out. But yeah, I the main point of this answer was I think it's up to us to have these conversations, to listen to these podcasts, to go and do our own work. If you can find a good men's group or a good men's program, like things that Alan's doing that actually are like calling you to your highest self and not he men woman haters clubs, little rascals. I'm aging myself back in the way before my time, actually. Not let's sit around and talk about how women suck, like I said before, but actually other men who are gonna support you and support your relationship and your roles as a husband and a father, and say, Come on, you can do better. We love you, but you can do better. Come on. And I think that's why these conversations are so important.

SPEAKER_01: 24:37

Yeah, absolutely. We in in our group we call that compassionate accountability. I love you, brother, and you're dropping the ball. Yeah. And and holding each other to a higher standard. Yeah. This the last little bit of our conversation, we've actually been talking a lot about leading. And as I said in the or mentioning in the intro, we tend to be as men in our private, in our professional lives, we're lead in leaders of some way, shape, or form. And so we're leading. So leading in work and in the boardroom, and or whether we're through military work or anything like that outside of the home, my point is. But when we get home, leading is a little different. And I'm starting to see more and more of a shift with men really starting to understand that we need to be di uh different at home, and then that difference can actually carry forward into the workplace and be much different leaders. So let's talk a little bit about this idea of leading for men and how we can swift switch from control and dominance to more of control and connection.

SPEAKER_02: 25:38

Yeah, big topic, right? Oh, we could go on for hours about that, and I've had so many opportunities over the year, and I haven't taken most of them where a CEO that I saw for marriage issues or for parenting, I even have this like kind of sub-niche that I joke about that I had a client once who was with a big Hollywood agency who came to me for parenting, and then he had breakup issues, and I talked him through that from the this kind of perspective of positive masculinity, and it went really well. And so he started referring me to other people, clients, and other people in the community. And so now I have this little thing where occasionally I have one guy who's just going through a breakup thing and he needs help with that, and he's a high-achieving guy. But in all these different roles, I have three different branches in my brain. At work, the relationship is different, right? Now we can talk about how it doesn't need to be as different as it is, but at work, we have objectives and we have goals and we have things that we have to achieve. And in America, there's all these rules about the obligations you have to the stockholders to have to do this. And I work with guys that work at the biggest companies, and they're not allowed to do anything that doesn't benefit the shareholders. If they had, if they wanted to do something because it was the right thing to do, but it would lose a little money, they're not supposed to do it. So there's a different environment where if you're my employee, Alan, sorry to make me you my employee here. I want to be kind, I want to be caring, I want to be a good model, masculine presence and care about the people who work for me. But the context is different. This is also a financial situation, and we have to get goals done. And if you're not doing your job, that affects everyone else. And so if I'm your boss, I have to say, hey, Alan, I care about you. I care about what's going on. If you're having a problem in your personal life, that matters to me. But we also have to get the goal done. And this is what you're supposed to do, right? Yeah. Do you have what you need to do that? Yeah. Okay, I need you to do it. Yes. But I can't talk to my wife that way. I can't talk to my and what I just said, Alan, is perfectly fine and fair and nice. Yeah. That was that's a perfectly kind way to try to be. I wish I had that boss. Part of why I do what I do is I can't stand having bosses. Yes, I some pe sometimes I joke with people. Why are you a therapist? Because I don't have to work for anybody, right? Yes. But what I just explained was perfectly kind and fair. Yes. But I cannot talk to my wife that way. Because how is that going to make her feel? How I can't talk to my children that way. Because the context of my love relationship is I love you. I care about your feelings. I don't get into a relationship with somebody to achieve business goals that might have existed more in the past, where okay, I'll marry you, but I get your dowry and we get the farm and we do right.

unknown: 28:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 28:59

We come together because we're supposed to emotionally support each other, but we're also supposed to have polarity and attraction in where there's these things that I need to be cognizant of and working with, but it's not a business agreement. And I think that's where a lot of my guy clients they try, and you know this, it was in your question, but they try to solve problems at home the way they solve them at work. And they try to talk to their wives the way that they talk to an employee. Because I was trained in in my MBA program, or I was trained in this thing I went to do for Tony Robbins' seminar to do this thing, and I like Tony, he's great. But that's not working here because the experience of my wife is you don't hear me, you don't get me. Yeah, you're applying that it like one of my favorite things to say of all time is what you said a minute ago. You have a hammer and everything looks like a nail. I'm not a nail. I need you to be present right now with what's actually going on and what I'm I'm actually saying. And so that a guy has to transition from at work, you're kicking ass, and you're going home and you're telling your wife, I don't have these problems at work. Yeah, because at work you're in charge and everybody has to do what you say. That's cheap. So I I hope that's an answer that we can work with maybe a little if you have some follow-ups. But yeah, I find that, yeah, your wife's not a nail, your kids aren't a nail, and you have to have different kinds of intelligence and different kinds of leadership. There are all sorts of things you can take from the ways you've been able to achieve in life that you can be informed by, but they don't apply to love relationships. The core of a love relationship is attachment, which is the science that I work with.

SPEAKER_01: 30:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 30:50

Do you get me? Do you hear me? Do you understand me? An employee shouldn't expect that's the highest order of our relationship. I will strive to do it, but it's not the main context. At home, that's it. My kid might be having a total meltdown, but he doesn't need me or she doesn't need me to yell at him or give him a structured consequence thing that makes him feel bad because I'm trying to get an outcome, and that's what we're trying to do is get an outcome. They need me to say no to my shitty behavior, to my out of control, I'm breaking stuff. But they need me to get why I'm doing it and where I'm at. And that's an emotional intelligence that takes work and it takes patience and it takes you working on your own stuff. And that's not easy. So the quickest thing I'm going to do is I'm going to try to apply something that I do at work.

SPEAKER_01: 31:51

Absolutely. I think the idea here is what we're talking about is really the context and what's happening. There may be nuances within a skill set that you're developing that can flow between the two, the two places, the two environments, but the context and the environment is so much different. There's there's a different kind of skin in the game when you're working with subordinates versus working with a partner and your children. And I think for me, lots of reasons why I get out into men's work, but I wasn't a great dad. And that was one of the ones, you know, reasons I got into it. And so I have such challenging relationships to this day with both of my sons. And it's because I used the tactics and the skills at work. I'm your father, you'll do as I tell you. This is how things go. That doesn't work very well. And so we needed to learn, I needed to learn a different skill set. And then the skill set was really about understanding about this presence, this idea of being there and looking for more for connection versus direction. They're not always asking for direction, they're just needing to know that they're being seen and heard. And I think for many of us as men, if we recognize that, then I think we will get some of the needs that we're met. I know there's a men's coach out there, he talks about men wanting to be respected. How do we gain respect? I think that's something that we give in order to receive. And if we're not doing that, then how do we expect to be respected if everything that we do is disrespectful to the people that we sit that we say, we claim we care for and we love them.

SPEAKER_02: 33:26

And so it's one of the most misunderstood, and I gotta tell you honestly, I believe in respect, but the way it comes out of fathers' mouths with their wives and with their kids, I almost always cringe and go, oh no, stop it. Okay. Like with your kids, and you're saying it, Alan, like you can't demand respect. One of the most positive masculine presences in my life growing up was not my dad, who unfortunately was just very explosive and angry. It was my uncle Dick. And we did not agree on politics. I'm sure he wasn't a perfect dad, but observing from afar, he raised my two male cousins that were a little older than me. He was a Marine. He actually joined the U.S. Marines because back in the day it happened a lot. He had a choice go to jail for something you did, theft or something, and when he was 16, or go into the military, right? And I know that happens in Canada. I've heard stories. And he signed up for the Marines before he was legally able to. He actually got a oh gosh, I'm forgetting right now, early in the morning here, but uh one of the big one of the best, not a purple heart, but he got one of the greatest medals you can get for valor, and it got taken away because they found out that he enlisted when he was not 18. Anyway, he just had this good, strong presence. He didn't talk that much, but he was wise and he was strong, and he just had those eyes that went, I see you, I see what you're doing. But oh man, I respected that man. Yeah, I'm getting tears in my eyes. He's been gone 10 years, and he was a tough old guy, and he had his marine tattoos, but he was a kind, loving presence, and I respect the hell out of that man. And he never told me I had to respect him, he just held that space. Yeah. Your kids are almost always acting out of instinct and what's going on around them. They are not, you know what I'll do is I'm gonna totally challenge my father's manhood later by not respecting his author. There's not a single kid who wakes up and thinks that. As teenagers, there's a gray area where sometimes some of that might be going on. But in general, that's not even how your teenager wants to see you. Okay. Your teenager wants you to be a good leader. They want to be able to follow you. When you are healthily attached to somebody, you want to follow their lead. You want to be like them. And what I teach and my parenting stuff is not how to assert that authority or force that over anybody, it's how to earn that and how to keep that connection. Because the truth is, I've worked with kids that were abused by their parents, that had horrible surroundings, and they still wanted to be with their parents. They still wanted that's how strong the attachment bond is, right? And so when my kid has things going on in him and around him, and a lot of it has to do with me that makes him not listen to me right now. Yeah, that is not his fault that I need to yell out of him or consequence out of him. It's my job as a leader first to go, okay, again, theme of the show, Alan. I might have to say no to something he's doing. That's fine. I might have to say that's destructive, that's not what we do. We don't talk to each other that way, we don't kick the cat. Okay. I might have to say those things, but I'm also gonna say, but I love you and what's going on? You seem really frustrated, you're mad at me, let's figure it out. Okay. Now I'm not trying to be your best friend either. You mentioned gentle parenting. Yeah, and I try to live in a place of non-judgment and as a person, but also as a parent. I know parents are so judged, I don't want them to be feel right, but boy, something gets me riled up sometimes. And when it's I watch this pendulum for the last 20 something years, I've been doing this go from everything's about gentle parenting, don't set limits, just be nice. Yeah, right now I'm with you if you're trying to be kind to your kid, but it it swings all the way over here, and then because it doesn't work and kids are talking back, and kids are not like responding to that because you're not being a leader, then all the parenting becomes what it is right now. Fuck around and find out parenting, which is huge all over social media. I didn't even know about it because I don't pay attention that much, but and then everybody gets harsh, and then relationships fray and things go badly, and people get estranged, and all this, and then they go, I'm gonna go be a gentle parent. And it's no in the middle path, be a leader. You're not your kid's best friend. Your mantra is not, oh, how do I make him happy? I want my kid to be happy, but that's not my job. My job is to take care of my child, right? Yes. Now he's an adult now, and it's not the same role, but my job is to take care of you. And if that happens to make you happy, and which I think over time it does, then great, but that's not my job. My job is to take care of you, and giving you ice cream for dinner would make you happy, but it wouldn't necessarily be taking care of you. You know what I mean? So another long answer to your question, but I'm gonna close the blinds here for the tune in a little.

SPEAKER_01: 39:18

Nah, no worries. That was so powerful. I completely agree with everything you're saying there. I think there this pendulum does tend to swing, and everything out with our work for sure is about being in the middle road and having developing skills that you can pull more tools out of the toolbox so we can be better leaders as husbands and fathers and as business leaders. So I'm just thinking right now that there was a father who's probably listening to this episode. Maybe he's the one who's feeling overwhelmed and he's a bit ashamed or afraid that now that he's messing up, he's hearing us talk about all this stuff. What would be a message you would give to him?

SPEAKER_02: 39:59

Look at the parts of yourself where you're triggered. Look at the parts of yourself that are might be in your blind spots. The things I referred to, Carl Jung, until you make what is unconscious conscious, it directs your life and you call it faith. Fate, sorry. It's everything we're talking about, Alan. It's switch, and I'm trying not to say it a certain way, switch from a victim mindset, switch, and victim is so loaded. I'd rather say switch from the feeling like you're at effect and because switch, switch from feeling like you have no say in what's going on around you to understanding that you have enormous ability to change what's going on around you. And it's by you looking at, look, I probably have a lot of good things about me. I don't want the message ever to be you're broken. You're that's not true. The guys listening to you, Alan, probably have a lot of things together in their life. For them to even be listening to this, and what I'm already speaking to the converted or the people who are trying to be converted, right? But you have a role, and I want you to be inspired by that. Your job is not to be a dictator over your children, and your job is not to be dominant macho asshole over your wife. Your job is to be the leader that they need, and that's for you, and that's for them, and that's for the situation. There are no losers if you put all of your effort into how can I be a better leader? How can I stop thinking you don't respect me? You're not doing my wife doesn't do something about it. And I'm not saying it like that coach who's like on TV and screaming at you that you're a horrible guy. I am saying it to you as another man, talking to another man who have had tons of challenges and made tons of mistakes and done lots of things that I wish I would have done differently. But I'm still saying there is no other choice. The only choice is go on that hero's journey. And Joseph Campbell, I was a mixed-up teenager who didn't think I could be a psychologist. I wanted to be in psychology, I didn't think I was smart enough to do it. I traveled. And when I was traveling, going to Europe a couple times, when I was like 19, 20, I was reading Joseph Campbell and The Hero's Journey and Tiknot Han, the Buddhist teacher. And what I was getting from Joseph Campbell is hey, this story is universal. It's in little villages in Africa that have no connection to Star Wars. They haven't seen it, they haven't seen Lord of the Rings or read it, but they're telling the same story.

SPEAKER_01: 42:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 42:54

And so when we see that hero's journey, that's my main message. Okay, that's my main message is you may feel like Frodo, you may feel like little farmer Luke on Tatooine or whatever, and that who am I to do this? You are exactly who needs to do that. Alan can't solve your family's problems. I can't either. And I joked with Alan before we started recording. That's actually my first name, Alan. The Alan can't do it for you. We are guides on your journey that are walking alongside of you saying, Come on, let's go. You can do it, you can be better. But the rewards of being on the path, not being perfect, but being on the path and striving and trying are so outstanding. They are so great to, even if you make mistakes, feel like, but I gave it my all, and I am trying to step up. And the truth is that even if it takes a little time, you're gonna see the results and happier children, happier spouse, and things going better because your wife doesn't need you to be dominant over her, she needs you to respect her and love her. And it's not men are better and men have to be the it's more like she just needs you to be a leader who can handle your shit, who can hold your emotions and don't erupt in them. And if she has some of them, you can help her ride it out and get through it, and that's what she needs because she probably didn't get a good positive mask and role model, or she did get some, and that's what she's expecting. So, another really long answer, Alan.

SPEAKER_01: 44:37

I hope there was a there was so much response in there. Todd, there's so much great stuff sitting in that piece, and what an outstanding way to wrap us up. You're absolutely right. Like we're almost an hour into this episode. We could go on for four more. Yeah, we could say thank you so much, my friend.

SPEAKER_02: 44:56

Let's talk again sometime.

SPEAKER_01: 44:57

We will. This wisdom you shared was great with us. It's really helping us can reconnect to what fatherhood truly is about. And it isn't about us being flawless in our execution, it's about being courageous in our presence. And when we learn how to lead our families from empathy, vision, and connection, I think we're gonna see a vast difference in our not just in our families, but in our communities and in the everywhere else around the world. And so I I think about what we're the next steps would be the best way for men to get in touch with you, Todd, join in some of the some of your work.

SPEAKER_02: 45:30

Transformative parenting.com. That not comfortable usually touting all the different things we have. I try to provide information and help for men no matter where they are on their journey. If you're in California, I do count couples counseling, but I also have the parenting program, and you can find out about that. It's a three-month coaching program. I have a book coming out, and I don't know if I told you that, Alan, but it because it was going to be next year. But I have a book coming out called The Calm and Connected Parent. In the interest of authenticity and transparency, the book I'm holding in my hand is completely fake. This is a mock-up, but it's done and it's being read by some people. And I don't know, that was 20 years of thinking I wanted to say something, I wanted to say something, but I don't know what I want to say. The book is for all parents, but it's about becoming a calm, connected, grounded parent. I also have another one in me that I've been working on that's gonna be just for fathers, but I'll tell you about that later. But yeah, the website, the YouTube channel, Transformative Parenting with Todd. If there's something that resonates with you, anybody who's listening, if you just have a question, send it to me. Todd at transformative parenting.com. Go to the website. I'm not gonna charge you. Just if you have a question, ask me the question. I'm happy to connect with guys. And part of why I wanted to be here is I'm a lot of times just talking to parents in general. And I just really feel passionate about our roles as dads and about us being that positive leader. And I think there can be so much good if we embrace that and take the challenge and take the call to adventure.

SPEAKER_01: 47:12

Oh, my friend. Aho. As we close today's episode, I want to leave you with this one challenge. Are you striving to be the perfect dad or are you willing to be a present one? And so your legacy with your children is going to be inherited and built upon how polished you look. It's gonna be built upon how you show up with love and leadership that you bring into their everyday lives. And so if you're ready to align your story with your purpose, then I'm gonna invite you to take our free integrity challenge. It's at our membership site, it's members.theawakenman.net. You know, the journey to become a man and a father starts when we get into our work. And so go ahead, hit that link in the members.theawakenman.net. Let's take that integrity challenge and let's get started today. Thank you so much, Todd, for being on the show. Really appreciate it having you here.

SPEAKER_02: 47:58

Thanks for having me. It was a great time.

SPEAKER_00: 48:10

Thank you for listening to the Revolutionary Man Podcast. Are you ready to own your destiny? To become more the man you're destined to be? Join the Brotherhood that is the Awakened Man at theawakendman.net. Start forging the new destiny today.